Before you freak out cause omg another thread, I have a reason for wanting a third thread.

I simply wish to reword my claims and present them head-to-head with the current system.

I for one am of the opinion that Skyrim could be a better balanced, more challenging game if the following changes were made. Mind you I realize they're done working on Skyrim, I simply suggest these changes for FO4, TES VI and future titles and wish to hear opinions:

1. Remove killcams from occuring on the player, simply because with the current programming, the player can instantly die at any time if an enemy simply ATTEMPTS to attack the player with an attack that deals more HP than he has, regardless of if the attempt would connect or not; the player is given no chance to avoid it. This forces the player to get above a certain amount of HP/Defense to avoid such killcams entirely, which quickly leads to the player becoming overpowered because they've stacked their defense and HP for end-game killcam capabilities.

2. Give pots a limit and/or cooldown, and/or lower their effectiveness AKA remove the "fully heal the player" versions. These are problematic because there literally isn't any way for an enemy to out-damage the player's healing ability, because the player's healing ability is literally infinite.

3. Rework the damage resistance system. 80% damage reduction across the board for all enemy types is far too drastic of a reduction and creates balance issues, resulting in players either becoming indestructable, becoming absolute oneshots if they don't have the best gear or both. Good alternatives would either be adopting the DT system of FO: NV or downscaling the scope of the current damage resistance system, thus capping the maximum damage resistance at 40% or 50% instead of 80%, thus reducing the gap between the best and worse characters and making enemies easier to balance for both (AKA weak characters fair better and strong characters experience more of a challenge)

Issues created by such a large gap can be seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtqyVeolb0 where I breeze through the game with the armor cap, and seen again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfSRQUTeTgY where this guy is practically invulnerable to damage thanks to 80% damage resistance, but gets oneshot almost instantly by anything magic due to 0% magic resistance.

4. Tougher enemies should focus on gaining more offense and attack power, not more HP and defense. Likewise, the player character should have more offensive potential than defensive. Gameplay where both the enemy and the player have high defense and HP is slow, repetitive, tedious, predictable, and affords the player plenty of time to react and prevent their own demise. Gameplay where both the enemy and the player have superior offensive capabilities to their defensive ones produces fast-paced, dynamic and exciting combat where the player must stay on their toes or they'll die, while also creating a game where the player doesn't have to spend 5 minutes just to kill a dragon. Instead of slow dragon fights the player KNOWS he can win, they'd be fast-paced and quite dangerous, making every encounter a threat for the player while simultaneously removing the problem of the fight being "boring" and time-consuming. Again, the combat produced by a defense-heavy system can be seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtqyVeolb0

So now I ask you, would you prefer seeing the above three changes made, or do you think the current system Skyrim has is better than if the above three suggestions were implemented?

Poll included so people can vote.

Reworking the damage resistance isn't enough. The HP bloat must be dealt with too.

The only one I really really without a doubt would not want to see is the first. I love killcams way too much and they're more fun then not for me. (Even on the player) Perhaps they could work out a better killcam system.

The other two points I think would be good.

Forgot that, my bad. I'll edit it in.

I wouldn't want any of these implemented. Skyrim would be worse if these were in the game.

Other than killcams, I agree.

It could be better, although my argument at the begging was because it seemed like you were stating that the game was horrible and I believed that it was great without them as well.

I agree wih the killcam thing.

I dont care about about a potion limit because I rarely use them. 5 potions then you can drink another 5 potions 1 minute after the potions have been consumed or the effect goes.

I posted this in the last thread-
heavy- maximum of 40% damage reduction.
light- maximum of 30% damage reduction.
unique- mximum of 50% damage reduction. unique stuff should always be better.

edit: misread the killcam thing.

Damn, these go by fast. I agree with those solutions. Not sure about the potion one though.

I'd love to hear one of the developers comment on this. The devs post in the forums over at Bioware, I wish they would do the same here.

Stop!!

You have been told many times how to make it more challenging and you refuse. Instead YOU create an OP char and complain about it.

Are you married? I have never seen anyone so stubborn on these forums.

Have you lowered you AR yet?

Have you lowered difficulty to overcome 1 hit kills??

Kill cams are a GREAT addition!

He's not saying remove Kill cams, just prevent them from happening to the player.

Being sync-killed is bad enough in ME where there are certain triggers to be met.

In Skyrim though, it's just chance that you'll get locked up and killed regardless of what you as a player could have done to avoid that.

For the killcam complaints, I'm specifically talking about the ones on the player, not the ones you perform.

The issue and the difference is that while you can be certain your killcam hit would've hit the computer whether the killcam triggered or not, killcams that trigger on the player often don't afford the player any time to simply move out of the way, shout, block, heal up or what-have-you. They ASSUME the player is dead when the player still has plenty of opportunities to prevent the attack from hitting them. Worse yet, they assume this the moment the NPC is sending a request to the system to attack, so if there's a slow bandit chief using a power attack with his warhammer, you're locked into a killcam the moment he STARTS the power attack, not when it actually finishes and connects.

The issue is that the VERY characters that are susceptible to killcam OHKO's are those that are designed to avoid damage and not take it. A mage that kites or a thief that hides would be hit with these the most, but by their very nature, these are the two that are most likely to try and avoid the attack entirely. The killcam however completely removes this playstyle for them and forces them to work on their HP and defense to avoid these, which is counter-intuitive to the purpose of the build, nor is it fun to be killed by what's effectively a dice-roll.

But that would get rid of things like dragons biting us...na I'm good with em. Who knows what epic creatures we'll see in TES6. I can't wait to be torn up in cinematic awesomeness, lol.

I'm fine with killcams on the player so long as they calculate upon hit instead of before it.(I feel the same for killcams on enemies. Feels cheap that I can killcam them without even hitting them)

Tbh I don't see why they don't just have the killcam trigger AFTER the move connects.

Yknow, basically what it'd do is instead of your character falling over dead like normal, he "survives" and is immediately tossed into the killcam scenario for the sake of cinematics.

This would allow the player time to try and avoid the attack, but still give people like yourself the cinematics they enjoy. As it stands now, a dragon simply has to ATTEMPT an attack that deals more damage than you have HP, and the result is your chance at dodging, interrupting or avoiding the attack is stolen from you.

A killcam toggle isn't difficult to program for.

There's a good fix right there, I agree.

Indeed.

I can see your point, but you must admit that it needs to be improved.

I love Occams Razor...the simple solution is often the best.

I don't want kill cams removed but if you could toggle them or adjust percentages in a menu then it would satisfy nearly everyone.

As for the other issues, I don't use potions and there's varying strengths of potions so it's a pointless complaint...simply don't spam them or don't use them.
As for health, damage, defense, etc...they can be adjusted by simply adjusting difficulty but perhaps expanding upon the factors could be better next time so difficulty also affects the way your character levels and how enemies level.

I really think Skyrims system is better then Oblivion but far from perfect...at least it's less rigid then OB so they player can change things as you progress even if you feel that it shouldn't be your responsibility to change.

As a programmer myself, the choice was obvious.

I second the request of Beth staff coming in for a small discussion on the matter. Someone said they partially agreed with the assessment of being unbalanced, so having a hint dropped on the next version's method would get us so excited, we'd start pre-ordering consoles.

I don't play TES for challenge, but I do think those changes would provide challenge for those that want it

Voted that one,Exactly how i feel

Of course that'd be nice, but I'd imagine they're busy and watching the forums isn't at the top of their to-do list. That's simply one of those occurences we can only hope for.

you'd be surprised, there's a couple of people on the team who lurk here every now and then. I wouldn't be surprised if someone was watching this discussion and shaking their heads at both your complaints and the fact that there's some sense spewed from your milk mustache mouth

I voted yes because because the game is pretty badly balanced.

The cooldown for potions is horribly needed, it's incredibly cheap to run around with 10 full-healing potions and just hotkey them everytime you think you might die. Cooldown is a good option but there is another option I'd like to see in action- I didn't play the game but I heard that in Witcher drinking potion happens in real time. And that sounds awesome, you shouldn't be able to eat and drink in the middle of the fight in my opinion unless you run away and hide somewhere, and except for the magic all the healing should be done post-combat.

While I like some killcams (mostly the ones related to archery, melee combat looks horrible because NPC positioning is so poorly coded in this game), I personally dislike the ones done on NPCs as well, mainly because two things;1st- how many times did I kill someone and even though he wasn't the last one and afaik killcam should only trigger when you kill your last enemy, it triggered and I got killed because after the whole animation goes by there's a good second where my character just stands around like a [censored], and 2nd how many times did I try to kill a lower leveled enemy that runs away, like a fox, a deer or a rabbit, with flames/frostbite/sparks and my character went into the killcam mode with obviously way too little magicka to actually kill the enemy, and again, while standing like a [censored] for a second or two the prey gets away. So I'd definitely like to see killcams triggering only when enemy is basically already dead.

Instead of lowering the resistance % cap I actually like Longknife's idea from previous post to simply lower the damage by 40 points instead of 40 percent. That would be much more balanced and fair.

Personally in my perfect setting we'd start with 100 health and we'd never go beyond that but instead we'd have to concentrate on damage reduction from equipment and attributes. That way enemies wouldn't have tons of health, and difficulty bar should simply raise the ai and possibly amount of enemies you'll encounter, and of course the damage output by both you and NPCs. And player should be able to survive any fight as a normal warrior without any magic abilities such as potions or healing if he wants to while still not being totally overpowered if he chooses to use magic.

Isn't it part of TES to have the option to create an overpowered character should that be your goal?

Kill cams aside, i've read the past threads and what i'm getting is that you would like the game to be designed so that it isn't possible to make an overpowered character.

Since, as you and others seem to be implying, if the game provides a legitimate way for a player to make their character OP (as part of the games design intent not neccesarily a balance issue), then, as a gamer, you must take it or else you're "gimping" yourself.

But, when you do, then guess what, you have an OP character that you don't like.

How do you reconcile your desire to have a game that prevents an OP character with a game that wants to intentionally provide players a legitimate path to being OP if that is their role playing goal?

Now, I suppose you could argue that getting to be OP could be made harder, but that is antoher topic.

I don't know, that's what I got out of all this.