In a single player RPG game, there is no such thing as an "over-powered" spell or ability. Who is it being unfair to? If you feel this power "breaks the game", and I'm assuming that means "makes the game less fun", then DON'T DO IT. Don't try to make everyone who plays the game have fun the same way you do.

If Chameleon, Invisibility and Control spells in Oblivion, made Illusion "too powerful" and ruined your fun then, DON'T USE THEM. Have fun however you like, without ruining it for others.

I liked playing a mage/illusionist, cloth wearer, with no weapon skills, on the hardest difficulty. And never even mastered Destruction once (it just got you killed on Very Hard mode). And I had FUN using those powers. I played Oblivion over and over. I made the mobs kill each other then I'd conjured daedra and undead, to get the remaining ones, and just disappeared. It was so much fun. I'm very sure there were many, many ways to defeat the game on Very Hard mode, but I didn't want to learn them, because the way I did it, was just so much fun.

This rant is in response to some buddies saying, "I'm glad they nerfed Illusion, it was just so over powered". How can it be? If it's not fun for them, then they should adapt the play-style that is the most fun, just naturally. It's not like there was only 1 way to play the game. We have another buddy that said "hm...I think I'll play it unarmed, with only mysticism and restoration, this time..."

I didn't want a new game, I wanted the old game, with better graphics, and new story-lines, set in a different place. That's what I was hoping for, and, foolishly perhaps, was expecting. And I feel let-down.

Ok, /rant over
sorry.

Great minds think alike....I hate seeing "{Power/Item/Trade} needs nerfed!, SO OVERPOWERED!" in the forums. Now if we had multiplayer or even just arenas I would agree.

Smithing/Enchanting is overpowered, guess what? I don't use it and I have fun. There's not even leaderboards so I dont know why people cry.

Agreed.

This. Just because it's there, and good, doesn't mean you need to maximize it to break the game.

Also, just because it's effective doesn't mean it's overpowered. Some people don't seem to understand that.
There will always be a better / easier way to do thigs. No matter how hard you try to balance.

Well now that you got your rant out of you I hope realize the people youre trying to target wont care. In fact im sure tomorrow will bring a whole new wave of NERF XXX OMG SO OP.

i agree with you but sadly it seems some people cannot exhibit self-control anymore.

Yeah I know...now that you've said it. It's just that the idea that invisibility was nerfed and Chameleon and Control spells were removed, or just not put in Skyrim, because some people didn't like that other people could use those spells in their own games? Or somehow they were insulted by the option of using illusion in that way? So it had to go?

It seems like, from the guys that were just hanging around the GameStop, and some of the posts I've seen here and elsewhere, that the only valid play-styles were

A. Beating the mob down, with a plate-wearing toon.

B. Shooting/stabbing the mob in the back with a leather-wearing toon...or

C. Blasting the mob to [censored] with cloth-wearing, pointy-hat type.

I liked that idea that, as a master of Illusion, Mancar Cameroon never even knew I was working against him, until the showdown, when suddenly, I pop up to ruin it for him. I crawled through all those planes of Oblivion, was never hit by a spell or weapon, unseen and unnoticed. Secretly and quietly pulling all the strings that the bad guys didn't even know existed. Like the Godfather. Y'know FINESSE. That was fun, and made me play it over and over. But now I'm told I can only have fun with Skyrim by doing it the A,B or C way? Why?

What you are forgetting is that you can go along completely natural in the game and still 'break' the game with things that are over-powered. Trying to get better at Smithing to get access to new armors is a logical thing to do. So basically, you are saying to not use Smithing? A whole skill?

Holy [censored] man, said it better than I ever could. Freaking Amen brother, Amen.

It is unfair to people who want a specific playstyle.

Like to play on Master, im betting playing as a pure mage (Late game) is a VERY bad idea. which isn't fair to the pure mage players.

EDIT: i use that example because i have read a lot about how magic damage scales very poorly compared tot he rest of the game styles.

There are "Overpowered" things in SP, why you say? A difficulty setting must be same for every playstyle(Not including strategies/tactics), if some can beat the game easier than others with less effort, that is overpowered. Also this thread seemed more like a reply than a thread article itself.

Use all of your magic classes. I'm a pure conjurer and I have no problems as far as combat. I can conjure magic weapons such as swords, bows,axes and I can summon minions to fight for me. I'm pretty sure late game I won't have any problems. People say magic svcks because they only use destruction. Destruction is weak imho but people specialize in that because its the more offensive magic. Other magic classes can be offensive as well, you just need to find out how.

Edit: Btw, I'm playing on master and have a mage companion.

How is doing 6000 damage with a sword not overpowered lol

When you're 1shotting dragons, I don't care if it's single, co-op, MMO whatever. Let me spell it out for you....


IT'S OVERPOWERED.

Dual wield?

Honestly, the reason I think that people believe things are over-powered are because to reach a point in the game, mathematically, you MUST choose certain perks. It's the thought that, even if you play the way you like and want, mathematically there will always be a "strongest" build.

It comes down to whether or not you care for reaching the very limits of the games mechanics to make yourself rediculously powerful, or if you want to have a creative build that sacrifices some power for more customizability and personal enjoyment.

I personally find that Smithing is nearly mandatory(I still refuse to use it), purely for the armor and weapons you can attain through using it. Unless you can loot all end-game gear, even so, the power you can gain through Alchemy/Enchanting/Smithing is a multitue higher than what you could attain if you hadn't taken those perk trees.

To balance this issue, perks in every tree would have to be mathematically neutral to each other, as far as total final damage and armor rating.

You can still make mobs kill each other with illusion, you can still summon daedra with conjuration and you can still make yourself invisible.

You wanted them to remake Oblivion, with better graphics... No thanks. That is what the oblivion mods are for. It was perfectly obvious from all the info about Skyrim that the magic system was drastically different from Oblivion. If you have so much fun playing oblivion, just keep playing it.

I prefer Skyrim in almost every way over Oblivion, as do lots of other people.

All builds in a game should be challenging and rewarding and equally balanced. This idea that single player games don't need to be balanced because you "just play how you want", is pretty stupid imo. Of course sp games need to be balanced, if I wanted to play in "god mode" I would use cheats. I usually love crafting in games, but not going to bother with it in Skyrim because from all accounts it makes you far too OP even on the highest difficulties. Sure I could play as a crafter, and purposely not craft good weapons/armour, but that is just stupid and kind of defeats the whole point of that class/playstyle.

Some things just need to be toned down I think. I havent tried Alch yet but I do know smithing and enchanting are abit over the top. Skill enchants need to be removed 1H, 2H and bow damage and most important the smithing bonus enchant just need to go, you can already double 1H, 2H, Bow damage from perks these enchants are just not needed. Smithing is fine but it works to well with other perks. Crafting an armor then upgradeing it 100% combined with the 150% bonus from other armor perks you could hit 800+ Armor and no melee will ever hurt you, the %'s just need to be toned down.

Having an unbalanced game is not well....good. I shouldent have to avoid perks to feel not cheezy, its not hard to see which perks and enchants are over the top in this game.

Why would you have to stop smithing? Is smithing overpowered? you shouldn't be able to make armor that good, and it makes the game less fun for you? So make smithing less powerful for EVERYONE, if you think it's too good? That having good armor makes the game too easy to play?

So...yes...don't smith if it makes the game not fun...A WHOLE SKILL, as you say....ignore it. Use store bought things. If what you buy at the store is not good enough, but what you smith is TOO good...well maybe you should just stop playing this game.

A game is only a broken as you make it. If you pull something like that off, yeah it is overpowered. Just because you have the ability to loop the game's enchanting and alchemy to get stuff that does not mean you have to make stuff that makes the game a cake walk.

I am surprised no one has seen the benefits of doing these things though, as one could make their favorite weak armor/weapons more useful and still keep their look.

What you think I said, is the exact opposite of what I meant. I tried to be very clear with my language.

What I'm saying is that there IS NO SUCH THING as too easy, if you are having fun. Whether you defeated the game with less "effort" then someone else is entirely, and in every way, subjective. Just your opinion. If you're having fun, it's not "too easy"....it's FUN. I'm saying that some people saying that Illusion was too powerful caused Bethesda to nerf it, when all they had to do was NOT do the things that made the game un-fun. DON'T maximize the power if you ruins your fun. Find some other way.

I'm fine with "overpower", like you said, just don't do it. "underpower" needs a look at though, it breaks immersion and takes away choices.

I dont care about stuff being overpowered, its destruction that people are having trouble with (since im playing on adept i dont have much trouble) so they want it changed. Because they like playing destruction. But it svcks for them.

Most ppl say that 1handed+block is overpowered even on master difficulty.

On adept difficulty = evryone is overpowred expect NPCS

Because people who complain about such things lead extremely shallow lives, and are the types to grow old into being those evil bitter neighbours that try and do anything they can to make people around them miserable.

Overreaction? Hardly, think about it, people who want to ruin things for others than don't effect them in the slightest, that's a seriously vile character trait. I think that in the next Elder Scroll's game they should code in an algorithm so that anybody with this problem get aids.

I was saying that, specifically, Skyrim did not need to be balanced by removing abilities from Oblivion. Because individual players, in their own games, could "balance" the game as they like, by simply picking the skills they want to use, and how to use them. That is adjusting the game to your taste. And you do it automatically, without thinking about it. Making Bethesda remove options you would never use, just so someone else won't use those options, is...well...I don't understand why anyone would do that. How can it possibly hurt your gaming? How could it possibly help your gaming? You can scale the powers yourself, however you like, by simply deciding when and how to use them.

There is a good chance that I'm just not understanding what you are trying to say. Because your last 3 sentences seemed to back-up my notion implicitly. It seems like you were contradicting yourself. You said I was stupid, then you said you did exactly what I was saying to do.

LOL. You don't have to use the 6000 damage sword, if it makes the game "too easy". Just DON'T USE the things that make it not-fun. Don't make Bethesda take the sword out of the game. Just don't use the damn thing. It's not over-powered because it's not hurting anyone else, and you have free will. You can chose NOT to do it. You see?