Fork of Horripilation anyone?

It's called the construction set.

Don't worry I'm well aware of it's existence and very much looking forward to seeing what I can do with it. Surprisingly I'm more interested in what I can mod Skyrim into than the default game-play. Modding isn't for everyone though.

If you are max level with good perk decisions etc, acquired the best items in the game etc, then in a single player open world RPG like this one you should feel very powerful.

I mean can anyone argue with that above statement? Very powerful to me means that it will take the hardest of the hardest things in the game to give you a challenge. You can't compare games like Fable 1-3 to TES with difficulty, Fable is like a totally different game far as that goes, difficulty & Fable do not go together. So moving on from that if you look at games in general that companies release (most genres) become more mainstream to appeal to wider audiences. Id guess its somewhat of a challenge for Bethesda to get the difficulty down for Skryim just right.

So difficulty varies with people/players is the whole point, so my personal thought/opinions on the difficulty for Skyrim? I think the game should be MUCH more challenging then Oblivion. If I kill a dragon at level 2 I am going to be really pissed off ill just leave it at that far as my opinion on the difficulty goes. EDIT: Extremely pissed. EDIT: Then glad that im on PC & can fix a difficulty issue with mods :]

Well said,i really do agree with this. If you can find an exploit or a way to be over-powered then fine,thats how you like to play. But as Orzorn said,if it's doing that through normal play,then that isn't good because it's forcing it. I always like a challenge,somewhere. Yes,as i level some enemies will be weaker,thats part and parcel of the game,but there has to be something out there that can make me think....well...hang on a minute,this ain't easy. If people like godly characters,fair enough,aslong as it's not forced.

I hate having a godly character.

Well, I like the idea of having an open-ended game which can go forever and still be fun/challenging. My hope is that there will always be balance and a challenge somewhere, no matter what level you are at. I think between dragon shouts, perks, and magic we'll be plenty powerful if we choose to be.

I really hope that health plays a much more minor role...like, if I were to invest in added health every level up, I hope that it would only protect you from a few extra hits, not like, 100 hits.

i would think that the answer to why people dont like overpowered characters is pretty obvious. some people dont like cheating and abusing exploits. some people actually want a game thats challenging and enjoyable at all levels not just level one. this is a bethesda game and as such it is going to have tons of mods many of which are going to require a high level character to play. even for console gamers who dont get the mods some people like putting 100s of hours into their characters and if your superman after only 20 or 30 or those hours it makes the game very dull.

for me a good game should have enemies that are very difficult or even impossible to kill for any character no matter what level. i want to be scared or at least anxious about something at high levels which im hoping the dragons will be super hard to beat.

what i dont understand is why people want overpowered characters? what is the point if nobody can kill or hurt you? i dont see the appeal. its no different than turning god mode on. :rolleyes:

Because, it is everyones natural instinct to become as powerful as possible. If its there, we will make use of that.

I agree with your agreeing with Orzorn lol. If someone wants to use 100% Chameleon or do crazy spell stacking let them. But if I find that I am killing everything in one shot I check the difficulty sliders and adjust them because something ain't right.


I do not have that natural instinct. I have no wish for power or even overwhelming success. All I want to do is go to college, be a game developer, and live in a house that looks like a silo. If I have a meager salary and can't afford 50 dollar a plate restaurants that is fine by me. I have a higher natural instinct to have a fast internet connection than to be powerful

Thats a flaw in the player. Thats like saying that every game you used the console to cheat, and all of the exploits in the game. You play as you chose. I chose to use weak fireball because I thought it was more fun that all of the other spells. I made enchanted clothing that shielded me, but I often didn't use it unless I was a high level or in a hectic situation, such as large battles.

I mean, who used super potions in Morrowind for every game? They were fun, but you didn't use them a lot because you knew it ruined gameplay...

Freedom and tight balance don't mesh well--as folks learned with Oblivion's level scaling. If the game is balanced for min-maxed characters, it's going to be a struggle to play other types of characters. I'd say that the price of freedom is responsibility and that sandbox games do place an onus on the player to chart their own course. You decide whether you want to do the main quest. You also decide what you consider to be an exploit and whether you want to take advantage of it.

Yes it is. But there is a difference between powerful and challenging,and powerful and easy. It's like the staggering thats mentioned,i personally love it,it will teach me to fight better if it pisses me off. If your constantly being staggered or knocked back,your doing something wrong or you've meet your match. I'm really excited about combat etc in skyrim.Timed blocks,dodges and attack,Yes,i'm all for that. It's much better than swinging like an idiot without penalty. If my timing is off in a fight,because i'm being a smart-[censored],i'll want knocking down a peg or two. Just because it's a single player game,doesn't mean it should'nt have balance overall and a challenge. I hate easy games,but thats just me

There are some standard problems when it comes to difficulty

Such as, in Morrowind, on your first play you didn't know where anything was. Adventuring was fun and interesting, and sometimes you could find really great items that would make you overpowered. That wasn't so bad. It doesn't get bad until you've played Morrowind through once or twice, and then you know where everything is located. So when you try to play it again, you have to actively avoid getting good items because it would make the game way too easy.

Then there was tribunal, where within an hour of play you would likely get the full DB gear set, which was ridiculously overpowered. And you don't go get it. It just magically comes to you while you sleep.

So at that point it's not even trying to avoid items and avoid metagaming (to the point where avoiding metagaming is in fact a metagame to not be OP) but you have to actively break character to not pick up some OP gear that comes to you.

I think that's problematic and poor game design. Especially for a game where longevity and replay are one of the biggest sellers.

Chameleon suits and such are one thing. You have to take some effort to get those things, especially early on in the game. You would have to know where everything is and go finding it all. It's fine to ruin your own gameplay. (Or make it, if you really just love being so OP that there's no longer a challenge)

However, I really don't want any things like what I explained about from Morrowind.

I think thats a rational argument. I loved that you could do that in Morrowind, but it could be seen as harmful.
And tribunal was supposed to cater to higher level characters, I thought there was a level limit on the dark brotherhood? Maybe it was too low though.
And of course arguing about chameleon suits is ridiculous because you have to make them, and finding the pieces is a challenge. Its not something you can stumble on to.

I like some overpowered characters, working to make them is almost as accomplishing as playing them. But you shouldn't have to avoid it, and you normally don't.

And for people who like to maximize their character as completely as possible, then complain that the exploits they sought out ruined their game, thats just a problem with how someone plays their game. Otherwise they should turn up the slider.

To you
"OPINIONS!"
Anyhow matters If I get my character to like level 40 or something I might want to be pretty powerful, but I believe at some time the player character will become very strong after a while and that shouldn't be balanced.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being extremely strong at high level. It's only overpowered stuff at low level that can be broken in my opinion. I wouldn't want a single player game balanced like an MMORPG, that's for sure.

I didn't know about the weakness stacking in Oblivion. If I understood it you could stack a few short duration weaknesses and they multiplied, so you could do 1000%+ damage. That kind of thing is obviously broken.

I do not, however, agree that lack of self control on the part of people that like challenge means that anything powerful should not exist. Things like the skeleton key are a part of the game, and if you don't like it don't go and get it. Things like 100% chameleon are not something you have to use. I built a 100% chameleon suit for fun... and proceeded to not use it. I like having that kind of power at max level, even if I choose to not utilize it.

Moreover, I wouldn't want everything you find outrageously balanced by level to the point that nothing you find is extraordinary in an effort to keep your player's power in check. Finding treasures should noticeably make you more powerful.

Robbing the merchant outside the Megaton (at the beginning) or taking the Grim Reaper perk (later) is not going way out of your way. I was playing it for the first time, so I didn't know how to "exploit" the game. Also, Alien Blaster is easy to find, it's not even hidden or guarded. You just travel from A to B and suddenly you have the most powerful weapon in the game with 100+ ammo.

Bethesda makes mundane games, where you have mundane powers. I think it will ruin the game if you can kill everyone with no challenge and with just one swing with your rusty iron dagger. There shouldn't even be an option for this, lol. - - Pherhaps that's why they're making diffuculty adjusted by the game engine?

I thought there was a hint in some of the interviews that many of the creatures in Skyrim would be more or less powerful based on the level that the game designers thought you should actually do the questing or go into the dungeon. Perhaps it will be implemented similarly to some MMORPG's where different areas are for different level range characters, when you level up, go to a cooler region with better loot and better monsters. This could be simply implemented more towards specific dungeons, or just towards quests, but it would surely make the issue of being over powered ... less of an issue, and it would make player choice more obvious. If the player fights in an easy area they have no right to complain that it's so easy. Who knows, maybe each city will have a different level range to it?

I personally like the idea of being able to OP at high levels, although this was way too easy in Oblivion, I naturally OP'd at level 20 and had only played for a few days. I played Morrowind for hundreds if not thousands of hours. It was very disappointing. That, and I had played Fable 2 a lot and Oblivion felt so empty, I felt so alone.

On another note, I just felt so powerful and so amazing from the moment I left the sewer. Everyone's hopes and dreams were left solely to me. No matter how long I may wait, the job is always there for ME and ME alone to complete. No matter how long the world is in mortal peril, I will always be able to save it. The NPC's will still be there to weep at my feet begging for a savior. I kind of lost that sense of urgency. It reminded me a bit too much of my real life, always having to help the inept peons with no skills to do everything. Whereas in Morrowind, it felt like they were waiting for me to start the fight, it peaked my curiosity more and drew me in more easily.

Back to the main point, I think that in Skyrim, getting that amazing weapon or armor will just help you progress on through an immensely complex and difficult story line, and possibly save your life from the dragons, or accidentally wandering into high difficulty territory. Perhaps if you want to go through and finish the main story early on a second playthrough, you can immediately find each type of epic armor, but you would still only be able to do it in areas that are safe enough, so you would still have to progress through the game.

Being able to become a super god thing is a flaw in game design in my opinion. I have no interest in playing such a character, or playing in a world that allows such things to happen without devine intervention (i.e.: If I get turned into a godlike thing due to a god thinking he should grant me such powers as reward for a quest, so be it).

If I notice that there is such a flaw in game design, I stop believing into the game world and see it as a "game" not as a "world". I don't want to see it as a "game" though, or I'd just be playing chess or poker. I want it to be a world more than a game, that's the difference between roleplaying and gaming.

I think they mean over-powered in the way that the game no longer poses a challenge.

It wouldn't be fun if everything dies in one swipe of a sword or one spell, and you have no choice about it cause your leveling makes it so whether you want it or not.
This is why I personally think enemies should level up with you to some degree, not constantly but if most just die like flies it's no fun either.

The best thing would be that the game is made so you can BE over powered if you want to, or within norm if you don't want to.
Then there is nothing to complain about, so let's hope that is the case.

Enemies should range from very easy to very hard (depending on area). For example, Gothic 2 provides great sense of progression without level scaling. As you progress, your character eventually becomes very powerful, but never overpowered.
I don't understand why some players don't like this approach?

I would caution people not to be too adamant about this OP thing being so bad, as it can only lead to old age and eventual death, and I prefer my character to be immortal.
Getting old would definitely cure the overpowering problem, and then devs wouldn't have to be super careful about it. Hopefully they never see this post. :bolt:

I bet it will happen someday though. :violin:

It's impossible to talk with anyone who is for being over powered in games. The only argument you seem to find is don't like it don't use it, how tired am I of hearing that everywhere. And I just don't understand, if you want to faceroll through the game change the difficulty and not by adding OP things that let you beat the game on the hardest without doing anything at all. The difficulty can be put so down that all enemies die with one shot and thus making your character OP, but hey that'd ruin the whole "I feel OP" feeling of those who use these things as they want to be able to say "I beat the game on very hard, look at my vitual p3n15", yeah sure you did you 100% chameleon user. :/

The problem with being overpowered is that it makes the game easy, and most games aren't fun when they become too easy. Now, I'm not saying no game can be easy and still be fun, but for most games, there needs to be a certain level of challenge for the game to be entertaining, in a single player game, you don't need to worry about keeping the game fair for other players, but it still needs to be entertaining for yourself, otherwise, what's the point in even playing at all? Now, of course if you have the OPTION to make yourself overpowered, you don't necessarily have to use it, assuming becoming overpowered is not an inevitable result of character progression like it was in Morrowind, but I usually prefer not to have to artificially limit myself for my game to be fun.

And that, you see, is my problem with becoming overpowered. Now, that's not to say I don't want to become POWERFUL, I want to be able to feel like my efforts have paid off when I reach higher levels, but I don't want to get to the point where I can basically push aside even the strongest enemies without effort, even at level 50, I still want to see something that can challenge me.