I agree, this argument is silly. It would be best for them if the game by default lets you raise all skills to maximum at the beginning of the game. Once again, "If you don't like it, don't use it". This one is even better: "If you want to, you should be able to". :no:

This was a problem in Daggerfall to Fallout 3. Two reasons for this, first you get lots of high end equipment making you better defended and more lethal than the enemies but mainly because you get health each time you level up and this health gain increase with higher endurance, at high level you have so much health that you are extremely hard to kill.
High end enemies are not lethal enough, the overlords and ghoul revers in broken steel was the only exception.
Found that having low endurance did wonder as you had less health and was easier to kill, same for playing without armor.

That is because that is simply not the point.
Its about options, about choice.

I want to have the option of using 100% chameleon if I want to. This does not mean that I ' faceroll through the game'.
In fact, I dont even use it all that much in Oblivion.
But when there is a particular quest I hate and have no intention of grinding my way through its tediousness for the 100th time.. Or when there is a particular NPC I want to follow around without his schedule changing due to him acknowledging me..
I want the option.

And that is why if you dont like it you shouldnt use it.
Because your argument is 'I dont like it, remove it.'
And that is fine for you, but what about the people that do like these options?

It is utterly selfish.

So, yeah. Dont like it dont use it.
And because these things require intimate knowledge of game mechanics, perhaps more importantly:
'Dont like it? Dont google it!'

P.S. I couldnt care less about your bragging rights about hardcoe difficulty being diminished by wonderful little options. Sheesh.

^this.^ I have no qualms with being overpowered, as long as its it takes some work.

get overpowered in one difficulty and that should be just enough to move to the next...

It was quite easy to find out about it all by myself, all that was needed was to be part of the mages guild and know the spell and then steal grand soul gems from the guild. As I said, why don't you just turn the difficulty down for the quest? I sure hope they fix chameleon and invisibility to match the AI and overall balance the game so that nothing can faceroll yourself through it, but if needed, they could add things that make you a demi-god.

But your argument is also selfish as you basically say that as far as someone wants it, it should be added into the game.Yeah, I can already imagine a Skyrim where that happened.

Ehm, no. Its already there so I want nothing added.

Turning down difficulty wont help much writing down an NPC's schedule, now does it?

Besides, Its still a fact that in Oblivion, 100% chameleon was hard to achieve. You needed either a high level, or quite intimate knowledge of the game to get the prerequisites.
Not something one can possibly just stumble across their first playthrough.
So what if I am rewarded for having played the game hundreds of hours by knowing these things?
Maybe I find the option appealing.
No-one forces you to go over 80% chameleon, or none at all, should you so desire.

All in all, you shouldnt start a game of ping pong by calling me sellfish.
Wanting to remove an option that is already in game because you cant control yourself is selfish.
Advocating that options are good and should not be removed is status quo.

Sorry? Has it been confirmed that we can get 100% chameleon working like it did in OB into Skyrim? Why not add it as a DLC? If it's not added as a DLC, I'm going to have to buy a DLC that removes them from my game.

I have no idea, I was talking about Oblivion * facedesk*

Since youre just ignoring everything I say, except when you can overexaggerate into the ridiculous or make otherwise snarky or snide comments, Im going to go the happy road and quit replying to you

can't people play the way they want to so just they can have fun anymorw? you know, the purpose of videogames in general?

challenges are fun...for some people, maybe even a lot of people, but "overpowered-ness" (or having a power fantasy) is also a lot of fun for other kind of players.

fun for everyone instead of fun for some, better it be that way.

as for me i like challenges, but i also love to feel like my character has gone a long way since his humble beginnings. i'm for overpowered characters if i so desire to roleplay as one and have fun with it.

I can't see the problem in fixing things that are actually broken. Ask Bethesda if it was their intention to be able to have 100% Chameleon...

Honestly, I cannot undertand when people say "I don't like to do this, so I (insert cheat name here)". Because you are... well, cheating.

About "don't want it don't use it"... would you like if at the beggining of the game there was a chest containing daedric full gear?

Overexaggerating into the ridiculous seems a hobby here.
And yes, 100% chameleon in Oblivion is an intended game feature.

And you know it because the Nine Divines have told you.

I cannot see overexaggerating. I can see you defending what you say without listening, instantly labelling other people's opinions as "overexaggerating".

I like to become extremely strong eventually. But there should always be something or someone who is evenly powerful. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of NPC lone wonderer equivalents randomly exploring the world as you do. You could aid each other in battle on occasions, or some could challenge you in an attempt to loot your gear as they would anyone else. Maybe your reputation would play a part in this also.

And THAT is the real problem you have with it, isn't it? That other people will "beat the game" choosing to use those methods, pardon me, "exploits", obviously mocking your "accomplishment" of "beating the game" in uber-macho hardcoe

As the poster above says, it is you that don't get it. Games like TES are not meant to be "beat", nor meant to be played one way only, and definitely not just about combat. The whole idea is about playing a role within the story, making decisions along the way as to how you want the role to play and how you want to define the course of the story.

Now, you can choose to make it all about the combat, that is one of the many choices you are given, but again, a choice.

At high levels you should be overpowered, with the best kit, skills, and magick...thats how an rpg works. Exploits aside of course

Wow..

Hyperbole much?

I'd say 100% chameleon is NOT broken. It works great.

If at the beginning of the game there was a chest containing full daedric armor.. what is the point you are trying to make? Yes, don't want it, don't use it. If there is a chest at the beginning of the game containing the best armor in the game, IF I want to, I'll take it; IF I don't want to, I don't. What's the issue here?

As for the "cheating", let me ask you first, who are you "cheating"? And, if I give you a code that removes fast travel and 100% chameleon, will you use it, or will you just begrudgingly play the game through?

Quick edit for the record: all my Oblivion playthroughs, mods, etc, I don't think I have ever used chameleon other than the first time during the tutorial, nor magic, unless I need to complete a quest.

The issue with the chest is that it would make no sense. The same happens with other stuff, such as Chamaleon 100% (which is a exploit). Will you try to justify the exploit of "infinite money" as well?

As for fast-travel, no problem there. Your character walks to the ubication. How can be that similar to have 100% Chameleon? The problem with Chamaleon 100''% is that it works TOO great. So great that you become a damn Master of the Universe. You are making something that you're no supposed to be doing, as you are no supposed to use glitches.

Well, how about you choose to NOT give yourself 100% chameleon? You know, just like you choose to walk from location to location?


Who told you you are not supposed to use 100% chameleon? Again, you choose to use it, or you choose not to use it.
And again with the "exploit" thing... if it works within the mechanics of the game, it is NOT an exploit. Period. End of story.

what's the problem with exploits like infinite money? i think they're great for a 3rd or fourth playthrough where i want to change things up a bit.

i think of them as the "dev console" for console users as we don't have that luxury.

Its not an exploit, its an intended game feature.
Its obviously, plain as the nose on your face thus.
Exploitable bugs are floating paint brushes. Intended game features are logical outcomes of coherent game mechanics.

You are the one not listening to other people. Im fine with responding to an opinion, not a hostile and wrong hyperbole.
If you dont want to use it, you dont have to.
I dont give a flying hoot about other peoples bragging rights for 'finishing the game', mainly cause it would be silly.

You dont have to use it, yet you want to restrict it so that even people that do can not.
That is selfish and being a spoilsport.
Why do you even care about how other people choose to enjoy their game?
I dont care that you dont like things like 100% chameleon.
I do care that you dont want me to enjoy it.

In RPGs, I want power to be earned. If I can destroy a town at low levels, then well, I mind as well just stop right now. There will be no challenge. As long as the better powers are earned, I'm good with it.

It's useful, no doubt about that. But, however, it's a glitch. It's something that shouldn't be there. Isn't that enough problem?



Do you like your game to have glitches? I suppose you don't, do you? Then, who told you you are not supposed to use them? You choose wether to use them, but, however, I suppose you wouldn't want them there.

There are things that I can choose to use or not to use, but however, I don't want in my game. What if the game gave you the option of beginning being a superheroe that would destroy the world with one move? I would think "WTF?" and I would be happy if that, even being only an option, disappeared of my game. Call me selfish if you want, but I want my game clean.




Your way of enjoying the game is passing through it being invisible, meaning that no one can stop you? Wow. How much fun.

Do you really think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-C289EXKM&feature=related is an intended feature?

not really if it's useful, i only consider it a problem if it hinders my playthrough like crashes, freezes, slowdowns and the like.
glitches that help the player, especially on consoles, are a load of fun to use.

Luckly for the people like me who like well balance games, Beth agrees and so do the vast majority of game developers. So do the vast majority of review sites, game balance is always a key criteria in single player game reviews(which influences buyers and devs). Games that are not well balance are just not as fun over the long term(for many), there are always going to be exploits but devs continually try to make better AI and better balance. Cheat codes,using the console, lowering the difficulty, have been ways for the op people to get what they want for a long time. Beth games go even further by giving you mods to make things even more absurd if you want. So the op people will get what they want with ease using the stuff I mentioned, making a balance game is much more work but things get better with each game and I for one an very pleased.

Another reason that some people like me like a well balance game is immersion, world believability, which Beth constantly strives for. When there are exploits it just reminds me I playing a game. Why don't any of the other powerful npcs do this? Why this, why that,etc.