I usually can get a full chameleon suit by level 7-8...takes a few hours...much less if you have the FCSpire dlc.

Good thing it likely won't be in Skyrim.

Yes and if you stumble onto something that powerful, so plainly out in the open. They should include overpowered items, but you should have almost no chance of stumbling onto to them. Like you say playing overpowered is a CHOICE and no one is forcing it on you. That choice should be made consciously before-hand. If you want to be too powerful in the game, you damn well better need to google it. What you're talking about it a false choice. It is a choice to use console commands, it was a choice to use duplication tricks; the amulet they're talking about is not really a choice, it is [censored] design.

SystemShock:



Please, ready my post on page 8 because it simply sums up what my point is quite well, and I'm not gonna re-write that or quote the whole thing.

You are comparing apples to oranges. If I have the two choices in the dialog, I can absolutely freely chose which one to take, depending on my character, that is correct. Because I can easily see which variant would suit my character best. I will select what my character would say.

As in any other situation. I will do what my character will do. And if my character finds overpowered equipment, he would take it. So will I. Well, I won't; but that's breaking immersion, because the moment I make a decision based on player knowledge/opinion rather than character knowledge/opinion (the character has no interest in me, the player, having fun, after all), I am not role-playing anymore. I am not playing my role. I am not doing what my role would do. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Given the dialog example, I can chose among several things that my character, my role, might want to say. I'll take what suits him best.
Given the overpowered object/gameplay mechanic as example, I can chose what my character would do in such a situation, what suits him best.

In the former case, that'll influence the dialog to suit my role. Perfect.
In the latter case, that'll make things dull for me because from now on, my game is easy as cake, but I have no other choice, because I HAVE to do the thing most obvious to my character.

The dialog options are different in that my character finds one of them more obvious than the others: The one HE'D chose.
The overpowered stuff - example, however, confronts my character with a situation in which what HE'D chose is in conflict with what I, the player, want to happen. With the result being a loss of fun or immersion. In the conversation on the other hand, I, as the player, WANT my character to say what HE wants to say. Even if he does not share my opinion: I WANT to see what happens when he says what he'd say. That's the fun in role playing. Being overpowered, though, cannot be considered fun by me. Neither can letting my character make a choice that does not suit him.

It's a dilemma. Either I do what my character would do, and end up not having fun anymore, or I do what'll let me have fun in the long run, but lose immersion and enjoyment for the moment and force myself out of my role, out of my character, out of the game, the world, the Elder Scrolls.


Again, compare it to a book. Imagine a book in which the main character has several possible things to answer to a question. He settles for one thing. You're happy and carry on reading.
Now imagine a book in which the character could either turn into a comic hero at some point or not. Imagine you're reading, say, the infernal city, and Treb stumbles upon a full set of daedric armor for no apparent reason, or Anaig (can't get the double i without google now, too lazy to do that) creates lots of boost-intelligence-potions and then creates an uber-strength-potion to bring down the city all by herself. Would you not throw the book into the corner in anger? And given that they do not do it, but are still facing the situation (Anaig for example finds a book explaining how to create such potions, but decides not to do so because that'd be "OP"), would you not be even angrier? How is that comparable to different choices in a conversation?



I don't want my games to turn into a Brechtian play. I want it to be a piece of romantic or realistic art, not the kind that breaches the fourth wall.

First, I read every post and understand everyone's reasoning.
I know where all of this angst against being over powered comes from. Lets review:

1) I found it challenging and spent many hours getting something, and I was jealous of my friend, extremely angrily jealous, that (s)he got item/feature X in an hour, it is over powered.

2) I am really good at fighting and slashing and dodging and timing and basic twitch reflexes, and I found that health ring that I found early on to make me extremely over powered.

3) I am not good at controlling my basic compulsions, there are no sweets left in my cookie jar, and I have a full suit of daedric armor that I found and decided to go on a rampage just because I could, but I didn't have any fun doing it, and I feel sick from too much candy, it is so over powered.

I am not trying to make anyone mad, but it is important for people with different points of view to understand where you are coming from, otherwise it is just a flame war. :flamethrower:

I personally found that many items that YOU (you know who you are) think are over powered to be life saving items that I could not have done without. You are being extremely inconsiderate by not recognizing that many people have less skill at games than you. All you have to do is turn up the difficulty slider, but for some reason, you won't, and it's not your fault?

100% chameleon isn't broken. I needed it to get the elder scrolls, and I had trouble getting through it even with it, not sure why. I died many times over and over when those stupid green ultra-powerful beasts started spawning, trolls, and I had to get some sweet gear. It reminded me of the unbalanced cliff racer spawns. I play weak characters with limited combat skills, so just because your super-warrior felt over powered, it wasn't due to a game failure, it was your own choices.

Finally, I agree that the devs should be extremely careful about balancing, and I liked morrowind's cheat system, it was almost impossible to accidentally do the multiple permanent summon effect. I don't believe that cheating making things overpowered should make sense, but not having it would be like not having mustard and ketchup for your hotdog.

For you.
And other people aren't you. :thumbsup:

Sorry for the snip, too long. Anyway, I am not comparing apples to oranges.

The truth is, there isn't a single point or item in Oblivion where you just walk into something that makes you "over-powered" instantly, whatever that means to you. Not a single thing. You just don't walk out you cell and find a 100 damage weapon, or a 500 damage resistant piece of armor, or know how to get 100% chameleon or all the things you need to get 100% chameleon out of the gate. You have to make a conscious decisions, not decision, but decisions, plural, to make yourself "over-powered" at one point in the game... if there is such a thing as being "over-powered"... maybe you are just awesome at button-mashing.

I take it you didn't enjoy Oblivion, so probably you are not going to enjoy Skyrim either., because you kow it will have a feature, oh excuse, "exploit" that someone is going to use, and that you will find out, which will zap the enjoyment out of the game.

After all, I guess it is all about the combat...

lol, they are probably not getting rid of 100% chameleon.

200+