A choice in Skyrim where the developers decide to go with fun over balance...



This would be fun for stealth classes, but due to the fact its unbalanced compared to the other weapons.....




They may scrap it.....

Yes, I agree, but I was interested in what he meant by "fun over balance". You should feel more powerful as you progress, but you should never feel almost-invincible, like in many modern RPGs. Most games are either challenging, or not challenging at all.
This is just my opinion...

Fully being unkillable should never ever in my opinion be added to a agme because it completely destroys everything the developers have done for the game. Such things include a 100% chameleon effect without AI enough to counter it and 100% resistance/reflection to something. Am I against chameleon? No I'm not, but at 100% it should not work as it did in OB, completely ruining the whole point of the game by making all enemies passive zombies doing nothing. Am I against reflection/resistances? No I'm not as long as we never get a 100% rating of it, because that too completely destroys the whole idea of the game. Damage reflection could be made more interesting, less powerful and unique by adding into a sort of lifestyle in the game, being able to turn yourself into living woodo-doll of everyone who attacks you, a max of 45% reflection should imo be obtainable, we should not become gods, only demi-gods and there should also be other NPCs who are demi-gods like us, would really add to the game a lot.

The whole point why I am against OP things is why the NPCs ever had a problem with invasions from OB or dragons in Skyrim when they simply could have, with the help of the mages guild, make 100% chameleon scouts that assassinate everything they see? Or 100% reflect damage and spell warriors standing alone against thousands of dremoras or dragons and just killing them all. If we can do it, so should adventurous NPCs too and if it can be done, there shouldn't be a problem ever again in history of TES. Thus, OP things shouldn't be added in the first place.

I agree entirely. If I focus on one area so much throughout my 40 hour playthrough, I better be the best in that area out of everyone in all of Skyrim. I thought it was fine in Oblivion that after playing 100+ hrs on character that I was ungodly powerful and wealthy. That's what happens. If I had made a much more balanced character, I would be strong in more things, but not REALLY strong in anything. But I always focus my characters into one thing so hard it becomes very strong.

Very thoughtful :thumbsup:

I prefer balance, because I find a challenge to be fun.


Thankfully, 99% of single-player developers agree with me - including Bethesda for Skyrim. (too tired to google the quotes)

In oblivion I managed to make a mod of a ring that gives 2000000 to all stats and put it ingame in 15 minutes and I know nothing of modding or programming so I go for anti-overpower. (At least for PC users anyway )

Because they couldnt. Not everyone has the highest tier of sigil stones.
Besides, NPC's did use chameleon. Claude Meric, for one.

Nobody made you go for 100% chameleon, a lengthy process involving intimate knowledge of the game.
You couldve capped yourself at 80%.
You shouldnt claim that an intended game feature is OP, and clamour for it to be removed, when it is your own actions that made you have a problem.
You are wanting to restrict everyone else, even the people that enjoy these kind of features, because of your inability to restrict yourself.
Thats not good.

Also, the chameleon suit allowed for emergent gameplay in a way that a capped feature simply never can do.
It was invaluable for instance the many times I followed an NPC for an in game week, to write down their schedule.

I still don't know why so many people come to this conclusion...


But yeah, the problem with OP is when you got it way too early. You should earn your power.

Yes, instant stealth kills is unbalanced, but a lot of people like this because it adds a fun dimension to stealth.

It is the responsibility of the player to not over-use the ability, and resort back to melee combat as appropriate.

I like having that responsibility, because I want the option for it to be a challenge or not.

For example if an NPC I want to kill is too strong to face directly, then I want the option to knife him in his sleep.

This is a cowardly approach both by the player controlling the character, and the character in the game. However, this new dimension adds both fun and some realism.

I had this discussion with one of my friends the other day and on one of my OB saves I have cheated all the way through it just so I could easily find everything. He was really annoyed by the fact I cheated because he says it isn't fair to hear about people beating all main story lines in just a few days by using cheats when he slaved over it for months on harder difficulties without any cheats. So I think its just bragging rights honestly and the horrible F word. FAIR. Honestly I don't care if someone wants to blow through the game using god mode and miss out on the challenge the game offers without cheating. I play through a large percentage of the game (at least all the main story lines) on the hardest difficulty and without cheats first just so I can enjoy the gameplay the way it was meant to be played then run back through with cheats to find everything I may have missed.

I respectfully disagree. Player needs to choose which skills to use based on what he likes, not based on what's more or less powerful. We can say that overpowered skills are a choice, but I think that it's simply bad RPG design.

Developers who don't want their game to be seen as an unpolished joke?

not a RPG but this comes in mind when i see this thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7r9RqWBdl8

What if someone likes to create one character and stick with it?

It does still let you choose what you like, for example I like to play a stealth class.

I have chosen what I like, next is to choose a comabt approach. As stealth I can sneak and insta-kill only one single target (as I will have alerted those around me), I can just straightforward engage in melee combat, or I can snipe with a bow far away.

Just because the stealth kill is the most powerful, it doesn't mean I have to use it over and over again just because its the best. It may not even be the most practical approach.

Everything can be overpowered or underpowered depending on the scenario.

If I'm assaulting a group of enemies, its pretty pointless to just assault one with an insta-kill. A barrage assault with a bow would be best here to eliminate as many as I can before engaging in melee.

I don't particularly 'like' one approach over the other, I use what is most practical based on the situation. If I just said "I like mace skill, so all im ever going to do is rush people down with a mace because its my favorite", then I should be underpowered compared to calculating people who use strengths that play to my weakness.

They will just balance properly so this isn't an issue.

I tend to have a fairly negative view of overpowered in games. There's two reasons for that, 1. being overpowered can make the game too easy and thus boring for me and 2. if the game (or game element e.g. combat) isn't much fun I will make my character overpowered to get through it faster.

Having played lots of games of the years the whole concept of being a 'hero' that can take on hoards of enemies single-handedly is starting to become a bit of a cliché. Depending on how the final game turns out I'm going to see what I can mod to make the character a little more ordinary and require more AI assistance in larger battles.

Agreed, but while you should be allowed to become OP, there should also be some OP and challenging enemies for yo to face. There should always be challenges, but challenges shouldn't necessarily be forced on you until you go looking for them.



While that may be somewhat true, that outlook ultimately led to Oblivion's severe level scaling. It's always better to place appropriate challenges in places where players can go to find them.. IE: having some "dangerous" parts of the map where you encounter viscous and powerful enemies.. and some "bunny slope" parts pf the game world where most enemy encounters will be mangable.

Oblivion tended to force challenge levels on you, rather than let you find challenges and difficulties at your own discretion.

I dont understand why people think balance is only for multi player.

Seriously like what teh heck. :banghead:

Balance is required so that you dont kill everything in one shot. I honestly prefer to be running around in the dirt, hiding, being clever, not having bucket loads of money, destroying everything in one hit. Why?

Well because it is much more fun. It is more fun to have a challenge, to be in a game where you know if you make a mistake you could die.And that is so much more fun when you play dead is dead.

Seriously all these kids wanting to be god's. Like seriously people. :facepalm:

I see what you mean, but you said that you want the option for it to be a challenge or not. This is where I disagree. I think that having a challenge is not arbitrary. It's the indicator of well designed and balanced RPG system. Therefore, without the balance the game just isn't fun for me.

Well, challenge in itself is very arbitrary. With the instant-kill, its a result of successfully sneaking and maneuvering behind your opponent. I find this very easy. Some might consider avoiding detection a daunting task in itself, so they instead opt to engage melee combat immediately.

Alternatively they could have chosen to challenge themselves by sneaking and assassinating.

Also, based on the light, number of people, and path to the victim, I may decide that sneaking is too difficult a challenge.

No matter how numerically balanced a game is, player preference will have someone somewhere opting out of or into a challenge. Assuming, of course, the game has left more than one playstyle available.

If the game includes some sort of exploits such that those so inclined can make overpowered characters, I couldn't care less. If, however, becoming overpowered is part of the game mechanics, I have no interest in playing the game. I find uber characters to be incredibly boring. I might as well go hit golf balls into a swimming pool - "Look! A hole-in-one!"

Once again, I respectfully disagree For me, in-game balance is closely related to "fun", but being able to create overpowered character is not.

Its the players choice and opinion. I, like blitzing enamies