Overuse of Dragonshouts

Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:10 am

Could be like the greater abilities from Oblivion, where you could only use them once per day. I'm sure they'll have a system to prevent spam, so no need to worry.
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Hairul Hafis
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:48 am

Could be like the greater abilities from Oblivion, where you could only use them once per day. I'm sure they'll have a system to prevent spam, so no need to worry.

NO

Seriously, no Greater Powers please.
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:42 am

Well I would think Dragonshouts run off Magika. And a ton of it.
:mellow:

Haha nope. That would make them spells, and it would mean only mages can truly use them.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Well I would think Dragonshouts run off Magika. And a ton of it. :mellow:



Haha nope. That would make them spells, and it would mean only mages can truly use them.



Plus, lore has it that it's not magical in nature. At least, not the magic typically considered "magic".

Maybe it takes it out of the Stamina bar? You are exerting yourself to yell...
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:12 am

NO

Seriously, no Greater Powers please.

No, I'm definitely sure It's not going to be like greater powers, where you could only use it once per day. I was just suggesting there was going to be a limit for balance.
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Sammi Jones
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:36 pm

Cooldowns are confirmed, but we dont know how they are exactly implemented.

I guess they will probably vary depending on how powerful it is (summon dragon, vs shadowstep), and probably will even have an attached global cool-down on all 20 so you just don't spam 20 different super powered spells 1 after the other.
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:51 am

Plus, lore has it that it's not magical in nature. At least, not the magic typically considered "magic".

Maybe it takes it out of the Stamina bar? You are exerting yourself to yell...

That would favor warriors
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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:51 pm

I could see them locking Dragon Shouts for battles with dragons, though I can also see that striking a very poor appeal to the fans.

Perhaps they're daily powers? Use them to get an advantage but then the lengthy cooldown?

I would say magicka, but it's not magic and that would make mega-mages even more overpowered than before.
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Charlie Ramsden
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:29 am

Taken from my http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1161098-dragons-a-thread-to-discuss-all-things-about-skyrims-dragons/ Thread.
Spoiler


Dragon Shouts

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/20/skyrim-s-dragon-shouts.aspx

Dragon Shouts are one of the new gameplay mechanics in Skyrim. A new set of powers, that stand apart from the existing magic system, based around these words of power and when learned how to say them right can unleash a broad range of powerful effects. In the game, players will guide their hero to learn ever more powerful dragon shouts, and then use these arcane powers to supplement other combat and magic skills.

There are over 20 unique shouts
and over time, players will collect their own arsenal of shouts. Each shout is formed from three words of power. “There are three words for each shout, and there are three levels to them. The amount of time you hold down the shout button is how many words come out,” Howard continues. “It becomes a bit of a collection mechanic – to collect all the words.” These multiple words can be gathered from different places around the world. Players can search out http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Components-SiteFiles-imagefeed-featured-bethesda-elderscrolls-elderscrollsv/wordwall.jpg_2D00_1680x0.jpg. Upon these walls, individual runes stand out to the hero because he or she is dragonborn. The words are in this ancient language, dragon language (more on this below) and every ancient wall you encounter carries an ancient legend.

Also new info from the Italian magazine article on Skyrim indicates there are special enemies who guard these Walls. Undead Dragon Priest are a sort of guardian of the "dragon shouts walls" That pop up when the player approaches a wall. They put up an hell of a fight apparently too.

The dragon shouts vary in style and power and each shout will grow in intensity with each new word you learn culminating in giving the player the same overwhelming might of the resurgent dragon population. After collecting more than 60 individual words that form up into over 20 complete shouts, Skyrim’s hero will be a force to be reckoned with, especially considering that these dragon-based abilities will be layered on top of his normal leveled-up abilities in combat, traditional magic, and stealth.

Examples of known Dragon Shouts:
  • One power is a invisible push of staggering power that sends foes hurtling away from you staggered by the force of your yell. Spoken in the game, your hero will intone the three words for the full shout: “Fus, Ro, Dah!” Translated into English, “Fus” means force, “Ro” means balance, and “Dah” means push. (Thu'um?)
  • One slows down time around you.
  • One, spoken as a whisper, aids you in stealth by sending you instantaneously from one place to another. Blinking or Teleporting very quickly.
  • One particular shout has you speaking the true name of an actual dragon which then forces the beast to come to your aid and fight beside you in battle.



How are Dragon Shouts acquired?

The ability to attain these powerful dragon shouts is unique to your hero and the path to attaining them is a quest in itself.

Upon defeating a dragon, Skyrim’s hero absorbs the soul of the fallen creature, which "fuels" his ability to learn a new shout. http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/02/Skryim-Trailer-anolysis-27-Dragon-Soul-590x425.jpg. Later, players can search out these scattered walls across Skyrim from which the dragonborn would learn the words. These walls covered in dragon script are where you learn the new words to increase the power and intensity of each dragon shout.


Spoiler
My guess is you'll visit the Greybeards atop High Hrothgar, that is to assume you successfully manage to climb the 7,000 steps :P, and they will train you in the way of the tongues. Teaching you your first dragon shout. Which one? My guess is the one that act most like the Thu'um of Nord legends. The one that the god Shor taught mankind to use. First with King Harrald Hairy Breeks (used Thu'um), then with King Wulfharth who's thu'um was so powerful that he could not verbally swear into the office when elected by the Pact of Chieftains so scribes were used to draw up his oaths, and finally with Tiber Septim whom he visited at the battle of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__16838257 and taught him Thu'um.

The power is a invisible push of staggering power that sends foes hurtling away from you staggered by the force of your yell. Spoken in the game, your hero will intone the three words for the full shout: “Fus, Ro, Dah!” Translated into English, “Fus” means force, “Ro” means balance, and “Dah” means push.

Then you must kill the dragons that are suppose to be a regular threat to unlock the ability to learn more shouts, As defeating a dragon has you absorb the soul of the fallen creature, which "fuels" the ability to learn a new shout. Then you visit ancient walls of draconic scripture and learn more words as you collect and become more powerful with your dragonshouts.

That's my take on it anyways.


“There are other people in the world who can use the dragon shouts, but it’s very rare. It’s like arcane knowledge. It used to be done more in the past,” Todd Howard explains. “The Greybeards know it. But your ability to absorb the dragon souls and do the shouts on the level that you can is beyond them.”

Atop a great mountain that rises above the tundra and forests of Skyrim known as The Throat of the World sits High Hrothgar. A settlement that is home to the Greybeards who live in absolute silence in order to better attune themselves to the voice of the sky. The ability to use the dragon language already existed in the fiction and lore of TES. It was called “Thu’um.” The concept roughly translates as “The Voice.” These mysterious old men will play a key part in the Dragonborn’s story. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thu%27um and the Dragonborn hero (you) must climb the 7,000 steps to reach the remote retreat and be trained by them.

These dragon shouts are the same source of power that launched the last line of emperors. Tiber Septim would use the dragon shouts to lead his troops into battle and unite Tamriel under one empire. (More on his history http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__st__100__p__16838257#entry16838257) Hundreds of years later, the Septim line has died out, and no other dragonborn have been seen for many years. That is, until the hero of Skyrim arrives on the scene.

Spoiler contains: 5 things I learned about the dragon shouts in past Lore of TES.
Spoiler

1. Thu’um sounds badass and very powerful.
A long practiced spiritual form of Nordic magic, also known as the Tongues, that is based on their worship of the Wind as a personification of Kynareth. Through the use of the Voice the power of a Nord can be formed into a thu'um, or shout - which has a large variety of applications. Shouts can be used to sharpen blades or to strike enemies. A common effect is the shout that knocks an enemy back, or the power of command. A strong Nord can instill bravery in men with his battle-cry, or stop a charging warrior with a roar.

Master Voices (known simply as Tongues) have legendary, and often unbelievable powers. They can call to specific people over hundreds of miles, and can move by casting a shout, appearing where it lands. The most powerful masters must even be careful whenever they speak, as their voice can cause great destruction. They must go gagged, and communicate through a sign language and through scribing runes. The breath and the voice are the vital essence of a Nord.

Today, all Tongues live secluded lives on the highest peaks of Skyrim in tough conditions and contemplation, and have only spoken to announce the destiny of the great Tiber Septim.

2. When the Nords attack a city, they take no siege engines or cavalry; the Tongues form in a wedge in front of the gatehouse, and draw in breath. When the leader lets it out in a Thu'um, the doors are blown in, and the axemen rush into the city.

When they defeat great enemies they take their tongues as trophies. These are woven into ropes and can hold speech like an enchantment.

3. During the Conquest of Morrowind, the Nordic war chiefs were also Tongues (Derek the Tall, Jorg Helmborg, Hoag Merkiller). They needed no typical siege weapons when attacking a city as they merely used the Voice to break down the city gate and allow their armies to storm in. The future of the Tongues was forever changed by the most powerful Tongue, Jurgen Windcaller, also better known as the Calm. Jurgen converted to a pacifist and refused to use the Voice for any martial purposes. In a confrontation with 17 other tongues he reportedly swallowed the Shouts of the 17 for three days until they lay exhausted, later to become his followers.

The art of Thu-um as a weapon is now lost and forbidden. Apart from the students of the discredited School of Thu'um in the Imperial City, Tiber Septim was reputedly the last man to wield this power. However, the ancient Greybeards still sit atop the many steps leading to the peak of High Hrothgar. (Hints that this is the training you shall receive in Skyrim)

4. The further north you go into Skyrim, the more powerful and elemental the people become, and the less they require dwellings and shelters. Wind is fundamental to Skyrim and the Nords; those that live in the far wastes always carry a wind with them.

5. Nords consider themselves to be the children of the sky. They call Skyrim or rather the tallest mountain in Skyrim the Throat of the World, because http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-children-sky They believe that they were http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord when the sky breathed onto the peak of this mountain, where High Hrothgar stands. The religion of Skyrim is focused on the Aedra and their old ally, Lorkhan. The Nordic Akatosh is Alduin, a terrible, ravenous dragon who presides over the cycle of existence and devours the universe at intervals. His coming is feared by all pious Nords, and he is the object of (through Nordic eyes) perverse worship by the Altmer, who venerated Auri-El. In more recent days, it has been shown that the traditional Alduin can co-exist with the less adversarial Cyrodiilic interpretation of Akatosh the Time Dragon. Kyne is notably more assertive and warlike than the nature-loving Kynareth. Although Mara is present in her role as a mother goddess, it was Kyne who is the mother of the Nords. She is also credited with sending her son Morihaus (and perhaps Pelinal) to the aid of the Cyro-Nordic slaves in their uprising. The chief of the pantheon of Skyrim is Lorkhan, and he merits the most mention. The Nords know him as Shor. The king of the gods, a champion of men in their struggles against the elves. He was treacherously slain by elven devils, yet continues to bestow favor on his people by aiding them with immortal champions such as Ysmir, another member of the Nordic pantheon. Today, Ysmir is the name by which Nords recognize the divinity of Talos.

Spoiler Contains: My theory on Shor's connection to the Dovahkiin (Dragonborn) in Skyrim
Spoiler


I posted this awhile back in my http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152130-the-story-behind-skyrim-v20/page__view__findpost__p__16865167 but I think it pertains to the topic of discussion so I'm going to re-post it.



Interesting take on things by the Nords huh?


Mark Lampert discussed how they create dragon shouts in game.

"They want to have different voice actors for each race and gender to perform the dragon shouts. Hopefully we'll record them a few times doing the shout a few times doing the best they can, each level or word of the shout. On top of that when you hear it in the game I'll just reverb the hell out of it and put some sort of magic effect with it whatever the shout does."


Basically I think there may be a cooldown but it won't be something that limits their usage to once a day like greater abilities or only used against dragons and mighty foes.

They are clearly described as "powers to supplement other combat and magic skills." So some, possibly most, won't even be about damage but rather about giving you certain advantages in combat and opening up new possibilities. Such as a force push of staggering power that sends foes hurtling away from you or slows down time around you or aiding you in stealth by sending you instantaneously from one place to another by blinking or teleporting very quickly if you will.

Also keep in mind you won't just get these all powerful shouts right away when you learn a new one.

There are three words for each shout, and there are three levels to them. The amount of time you hold down the shout button is how many words come out,” Howard continues. “It becomes a bit of a collection mechanic – to collect all the words.


So I imagine you may learn that "Fus, Ro, Dah" dragonshout but it won't be as powerful as the one you saw in the trailer from the get go. You'll just learn "Fus" starting out and that'll be all you can use until you learn the other words.

How do you learn them? How are Dragon Shouts acquired?

Upon defeating a dragon, Skyrim’s hero absorbs the soul of the fallen creature, which "fuels" his ability to learn a new shout. We saw a first glimpse at this in the official trailer. But players must search out these scattered walls across Skyrim from which the dragonborn would learn the words. These walls covered in dragon script are where you learn the new words to increase the power and intensity of each dragon shout. Upon these walls, individual runes stand out to the hero because he or she is dragonborn.


So I know for one thing exploration is going to be huge in Skyrim. Although it may be that these wall locations are tied in with sidequests or the main storyline itself but I am still going to be exploring and searching for them on my own before going through the main story too far.

Each ancient wall you encounter carries an ancient legend and Also Undead Dragon Priest are a sort of guardian of these walls. They pop up when the player approaches a wall. They put up an hell of a fight apparently too.


I'm pretty sure the Dragonshouts system is going to be a regular part of combat and you'll be able to use your different levels of shouts multiple times in day, if not in every battle. You may only hold down the shout button a short time and use the lower level shout ability against a lesser foe.

Eventually though you'll become the true savior of mankind, this badass dragonborn who with the power of dragon shouts that grow in intensity with each new word you learn culminating in giving the player the same overwhelming might of the resurgent dragon population.

After collecting more than 60 individual words that form up into over 20 complete shouts, Skyrim’s hero will be a force to be reckoned with, especially considering that these dragon-based abilities will be layered on top of his normal leveled-up abilities in combat, traditional magic, and stealth.


Pretty excited for this feature myself.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 am

They have individual timers, so if you have a lot of shouts, you'll be really powerful...maybe even spamming shouts. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I guess you could not use them or limit yourself for more fun. I think I'll enjoy the one that slows time though
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:34 pm

So... Health makes you think twice about walking into the thick of things where many things will hurt you.

Stamina prevents you from swinging that big ol' sword all willy-nilly like some berserker.

Magicka prevents you from flinging fireballs ad lightning bolts left and right with reckless magimaniacal abandon.

So what prevents you from yelling FUS-RO-DAH at every mook who so much as looks at you wrong?


Cooldown periods, my man. The stronger the shout, the longer the cooldown. Some shouts could be used every 30 seconds, while others may have to wait 90.
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chirsty aggas
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:50 pm

However they handle it, I hope it isn't too limiting. If I kill three dragons and find some ancient rune telling me how use one of their powers, I deserve to use one of their powers quite oftenly, in my opinion... assuming dragons are high-level enemies in Skyrim.
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Taylor Tifany
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:39 am

I thought the dragon shouts only affected the dragons ? using their language against them so they shouldn't have an effect on anything else. and u get a new dragon shout after u kill a dragon
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Manuel rivera
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:35 am

Dragon shouts could reset when you beat a dragon :) so you would better not waste them on normal enemies, because you'd still have to beat a dragon to reset them anyway, better to use them in the real fights. If they only havre a cool-down over time, it's going to be abused by many.
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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Dragon shouts could reset when you beat a dragon :) so you would better not waste them on normal enemies, because you'd still have to beat a dragon to reset them anyway, better to use them in the real fights. If they only havre a cool-down over time, it's going to be abused by many.

I don't believe Skyrim will have an unlimited amount of dragons nor do I think taking down a whole dragon should be required just to allow continued use of these cool-sounding, hyped-up powers. It seems too inefficient and would make dragon shouts a chore to use, in my opinion.
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Maya Maya
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:03 am

I thought the dragon shouts only affected the dragons ? using their language against them so they shouldn't have an effect on anything else. and u get a new dragon shout after u kill a dragon


I have been in doubt as to whether it is just dragons that are affected or just everyone in your way, but I actually wouldn't mind it if it was just the dragons. Not too happy about the dragon shout idea to be honest... I know it's in, but since it's on topic...
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AnDres MeZa
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:02 am

So how long should the cooldown be on the rumored dragon summon shout?

Approximately 10 seconds, but every time you call it gets teleported back to its lair and has to fly to the battlefield again.
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Roy Harris
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:24 am

I would assume that there will be a lengthy cooldown time for the Dragon Shouts, at least I hope so

Hopefully not to long, found the greater powers to be useless as you could only use them once a day, so long you never learned how to use them and never knew if they was useable.
A couple of minutes real time would stop you from using them twice in a fight.
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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:42 am

They're supposed to be emergency weapons. 1 minute is nothing. That's 48 times a day it can be used, which I reckon is much overpowered. Around half a day to a day is a better cooldown, similar to greater powers, since they'd be a lot mroe useful, especially once you get many of them.



I think they are supposed to be fun less then emergency weapons. Something to add flavor to your character. I think a minute or two is fine, that way you can have it again by the time you get into the next battle but can just spam it so people are constantly on their ass. Greater powers were completely wortless in my opinion, never even used them.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:49 am

What's FUS-RO-DAN do?


Well going off what I have read and what Fus-Ro-Dah means, I'm guessing that is pushes back the enemy and stuns them a little.

I would assume that there will be a lengthy cooldown time for the Dragon Shouts, at least I hope so


That's what I'm thinking aswell.
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Trent Theriot
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:40 pm

They have confirmed each shout has a cooldown.
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John Moore
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:48 am

i would like to see a cool down that is related to the shout. the stronger the shout the longer the cool down.

This, but the cool-down should also decrease depending on how powerful your character is.

For example if you're very high leveled, you should be able to use extremely powerful shouts once in a great while. But such a powerful player should also be capable of using low-leveled shouts frequently.
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:27 am

i do remember them saying it needs a "cooldown" but there are many shouts maybe not all just to attack and the "cooldown" varies
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Helen Quill
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:10 pm

I would be happy if they had either a recharging period, or tied in somehow to the mana pool.
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Charlotte Henderson
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:11 am

I think they are supposed to be fun less then emergency weapons. Something to add flavor to your character. I think a minute or two is fine, that way you can have it again by the time you get into the next battle but can just spam it so people are constantly on their ass. Greater powers were completely wortless in my opinion, never even used them.

But then if you get, say, 20 dragon shouts, it would be incredibly easy to spam. Seriously, they're way too powerful. You saw in the trailer, he used it only as a last resort.
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hannah sillery
 
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