Re-read my post. I said nothing of the sort.

English not your first language? When someone considers something a joke, it generally means they don't consider it worth being taken seriously.

No it is, but the way you wrote it heavily implies you think its a terrible idea and or unreasonable.

I was actually going to ask you that question myself.

The entire Blades vs Greybeards concept in the mq was implemented poorly. The reasons they are at odds isn't very fleshed out and the order by the blades to kill Paarth is just sprung on you. It's all a joke

Mario.

Uhh how is an ancient sect of Dragon Hunters wanting to kill a dragon who is friends to a bunch of hippies not fleshed out enough for you

• You know the histroy of the Blades since thier arrival from akavir
  
• You know the greybeards history to some extent also
  
• You know why the factions do what they do and belive what they believe.

If knowing the past and motivationss of both factions involved isnt giving you enough info then all I can say is read more.

Delphine is the "friend" who sends letters?

It's more likely than I think...

ok you got me on that one, I guess some article mislead me...

The old dragon is alive and well in my game.

I just wish he would tell his friends that attacking me is fatal

TBH this wouldnt be a big deal or talked about as much on the forums if the "blades" just basically tell u "hey we're doen being blades, we wanna become dragonguards "totally different formt he baldes" and we'd liek ya to join with us but we need ya to take care of an anciet enemy the old order had wayyy back in the day...u know really give our new grp that UMPH to let people know about us.." instead of lying about staying a blade or being one and just tell us the truth that they wanna ditch the whole "serve, protect, advise the dragonborn is all our order is made for and only purpose" to hey dragosn are coming back we wanna ditch this order..i mean hey we are the last 2 i think..and change it and becoem liek the dragonguard of old where we just hunt dragosn and slay any man/beast/thing in our path to do it.

Has to be Paarthurnax, mainly because he actually helped me, he helped fight Aldiun the first time, told me how to get Dragonrend etc.....what did Delphine do? nothing, just sat and ordered me about, didnt help me kil any dragons, I thought she was supposed to protect the Dragonborn, not order him around, if there was anyone I wish I could kill it would be her. Plus if she wants him dead so badly, she could always go and do it? not refuse to talk to me until I do, damn woman

After getting to this point in the main story line, I have decided I will kill Parthurnaax after the Season Unending Peace Conference (I had to give my Xbox a Break)

I will kill him for the following Reasons:

1. Paarthurnaax CAN NOT BE TRUSTED - This is the dragon that "betrayed" his own brother...as evil as Alduin is....even he thought he could trust his own brother.....that is the reason Paarthurnaax was Alduin's Top General and second in charge of the Dragons all the way up to his betrayal...Alduin would have trusted Parthurnaax with his life...and in return Parthurnaax stabbed alduin in the heart. Paarthurnaax DID NOT betray his brother Alduin for the "goodness of his heart" He did not side with the humans to help them, Paarthurnax betrayed his brother because he coveted what Alduin had which is being the King Dragon and being the most powerful. He made a deal with Kyne which im sure she promised Parthurnaax he would be in charge after Alduin was defeated. However, Parthurnaax was not strong enough to kill Alduin on hos own, So he "hide" under the protection of the GreyBeards(who have been decieved, and are being used by Parthurnaax) until the DragonBorn of Legend comes, and then Parthurnaax figured he would help the DragonBorn beat Alduin so he could take charge of the Dragons.

In the meantime, after the DragonBorn succeeds, Parthurnaax will "secretly" plot and scheme with the other Dragons and wait until the Dragonborn dies...Once there is no one left who knows the DragonRend shout, Parthurnaax will then do what he was born to do...enslave the human race just as his brother Alduin did...your telling me Parthurnaax didn't know where his brother went? Of course he knew! Parthurnaax had plans that "he" would be the one to eat souls in sovengarde after the Dragonborn passes away.


2. Parthurnaax, the Greybeards, and their revisionist history- The Greybeards, Parthurnaax, and their stone tabelts leading up to the Thorat of the World conviently leave out the role the Avaviri Blades played in the Dragonwar. The Blades were "instrumental" in helping the Ancient nords fight their Dragon Overlords....Their coming at first was seen as an invasion, but thats not why the Avaviri came, they came in search of the DragonBorn who could permantely kill these Dragons...Alduin Wall(Far left Panel) shows the Akaviri fighting alongside the Ancient nord heros fighting Alduin and his Dragons that the stone tabelts of The Throat of the World conviently left out...All of Mundas was enslaved to the Dragons at that time, Including Akavir, The Akavir's began to fight back against them at around the same time. The GreyBeards and the Akaviri Dragonguard(later known as the Blades) hit a rift when the Blades wanted to put every Dragon back in the ground because they have done nothing in the past, present, or future to show they want any kind of peace with humans at all....Tiber Septim only spared Parthurnaax because the GreyBeards protected him, and at that time...i fully surmise the real reason the GreyBeards told tiber Septim to go south was because they were not going to let him kill the traitor Parthurnaax. What better way to distract the Dragonborn then to occupy him with carving out an empire for most of his life?

Also, those "Secret Courier Messages" you receive that show you where to find word Walls...those come from Delphine and the blades...helping you grow as Dragonborn...they can and do help you just as much as the greybeards...but as Delphine said...they do it "The Blades way" in the shadows, in secret, behind the scenes they make things happen....the blades point you to word walls too...Delphine (and later Esbern) are the ones who send that courier with a word wall location, it sure isn't the greybeards who never leave their mountain.

also, if it was up to the Greybeards, they would just let Alduin end the world and be done with it....just like Agneir says when you ask him about DragonRend...Pathurnaax only helps you because he can't larn Dragonrend himself and he knows thats the only wya to beat alduin...so he uses you to acheive his own ends.

Also it was Kyne who gave mortals the ability to speak as Dragons, Parthurnaax only flip-flopped to help his own agenda of being the "dragon in charge"


3. Parthurnaax is guilty of crimes against humanity - Parthurnaax is responsible for thousands, upon thousands upon, thousands of innocent people buthered by his hands....does he not deserve to answer for his crimes? Parthurnaax tells you himself that "a dovah should never trust another dovah" He is not a good guy.....Parthurnaax knows you have DragonRend and can kill him...he will feed you any line of nonsense to make you feel bad for him when he knows his life is on the line...he is not a good guy...his name means:

"Ambition Overlord Cruelty" or "Ambition Tyranny Cruelty".

he certainly lived up to that name during the Dragon war..in fact the only one who done deeds worse then him was his Brother "The World Eater" himself....you think about that....would "you" want someone like that to live next door to you? to be your neighbor? to not be in prison or whatever other justice would be laid out for someone such as that? I know I wouldn't.

Parthurnaax is just using you...and he is using the GreyBeards to further his own agenda(becoming the head dragon) just like he always has...he has used and manipulated the Greybreads into protecting him while he "bides his time" on top of the mountain to take over....if left alive, one day soon after he knows the only person left that knows DragonRend is dead...the greybeards will wake up to a wonderful suprise of him raining fire and brimestone down upoin them with all his dragon buddies that he "Brought into the Way of the Voice"...more like secrelty building up his army for the takeover of the world...

Odaving on the otherhand can be "somewhat trusted" only due to the fact that the Dragonborn outright beat him in combat and demanded his loyalty or his life...Odaving knows he stands no chance against you after that, and in essense has become your servent...because he knows its better to serve one stronger then yourself, then to die at his/her hands....Odaving is no fool....He may have to be dealt with in the future, but Odaving (according to lore) is not as strong or as old as Parthurnaax and probably doesn't know the secret of how Alduin feeds on souls...I would bet anything Parthurnaax knows exactly how Alduin does it...he is the 2nd born and Alduins brother and was his most trusted and highest Dragon general for eons...Parthurnaax knows...he just need Alduin out of the way before he could achive his ultimate agenda....the Dragonborn absording Parthurnaax soul he will be doing humanity a great service for the future.

I rather think the Greybeards don't hate the Dragonborn for killing Paarthurnax (if yours did) as much as they're disturbed that the Dragonborn has misused (and will continue to misuse in their view) the Way of the Voice. Of course they're not precisely happy that the Dragonborn has killed Paarthurnax, but since they're the epitomy of the "long view", the death of the leader is perhaps of less moment in their eyes than the obvious: the Dragonborn is a creature of violence....

I help Paarthurnax in the end. Why? For the following reasons:

1. Paarthurnax is a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionQuest. If you're a brony or a non-brony who's ever read the fan fic, "Past Sins", the moment you recognized this character trait, you should immediately become a Pro-Paarthurnax person. Of course being a redemption character, if you kill him, you've just proven that redemption means nothing.

2. The Blades do ONE THING. ONE FREAKIN THING. They help you break into the Thalmor embassy. That I can recognize. I love killing Thalmor. But that's it. The Greybeards, let's see what they do. They teach you Unrelenting Force, give you Word Wall locations, and even allows you to hold a Summit Meeting in THEIR TERRITORY.

Let's see what Paarthurnax does for you. He gives you a word for Fire Breath, helps you with finding the Elder Scroll, and helps you teach Dragonrend. Not to mention he lets you be more powerful by giving you some meditation powers.

3. That's not what the Blades are about. The Blades are people who serve the Dragonborn. If the Dragonborn says, "Alright, let's not kill Paarthurnax but let's end Alduin's life," the blades should all rally behind him. No, Delphine is the leader of the Blades. Alright, that much I can accept but still, Delphine needs to realize that they still technically serve the Dragonborn, not her.

Actually the greybeards specfically say they dislike the Dragonborn for killing arth after all the trust he gave them.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

*brohoof*

Dark: let me get this straight:

Parthurnaax is responsible for butchering many, many, many thousands of innocent men, women, and CHILDREN...thats right...little kids...when he burned down villages and towns, and everything else...and you think its OK that he should be allowed to sit on that mountain top with no consequences for his actions?

Believe it or not, The Dragonborn is doing Parthurnaax "a favor" by killing him....The Dragonborn absorbs Parthurnaax's soul...in essense the Dragonborn "becomes" Parthurnaax in a sense...as Parthurnaax becomes part of him/her....think of it like a Quickening from the Highlander franchise...as we learned early in the game that the Dragonborn and other Dragons can absorb the life essence/knowledge of their slain brethren/dragons....

it is ONLY though the Dragonborn killing Parthurnaax that Parthurnaax can truely be redeemed....by The Dragonborn using Parthurnaax's soul to defeat Alduin and set back the balance....his death also fullfill justice for all those Parthurnaax wrong....again setting the world back to balance...and Parthurnaax finally receives peace from his urge to dominate.

Think of it like this:

In the movie Highlander:Endgame...Connor Macleod kills a pastor(he didn't mean to do it intenionally) him doing this plagued him for centuries...he walked around with a heavy heart...not a day went by Conner did not think about what he had done....He also knew Jacob Kell would catch up to him one day exacting revenge...Connor being afraid to live up to the mistakes of his past dodged Kell for centuries, even went as far as to lock himself up in "The Sancturaly" (akin to Parthurnaax's mountain).....eventually Kell began to kill everyone Conner loved and Conner finally forced his Klansman Duncan MacCleod to kill him and absorb his soul....Duncan was then able to defeat Kell and give Connor his redemption.....The Dragonborn carrying Parthurnaax's Soul is the only way he will ever truely get the Redemption he seeks....and justice and redemption together will be fulfilled and balance will be achieved....

Parthurnaax himself would eventually come to this conclusion o his own(if he truely cares for humans) and would be forced to find another Dragonborn centuries down the road to kill him and carry his spirit to do good deeds knowing his essence was a apart of that.

I know above i was herd on Parthurnaax in my previous post, I just finished killing him...I didn't get any pleasure out of doing it....it made me sad to say good by to Parthurnaax....but it was the "right thing" to do....the right decision is always the hardest, most displeasureable one to make...killing Parthurnaax was displeasurable....but it was the right decision...for everyone involved...besides, the leadership of the Greybeards falls to Agneir now...he is wise in his years, and he can pass Parthurnaax's knowledge down the line of generations....

the bottom line is....justice aside, I would have allowed Parthurnaax to live if i was 100% positive i could trust him...but he himself admits he is not to be trusted...he flat out tells you not to trust him....leaving Parthurnaax alive is a big risk....its not a matter if if Parthurnaax reverts back to his old ways, its a matter of WHEN....and if left alive..when that day comes...I do not want to have that blood on my hands knowing i could have done something to stop it....thats like letting a convicted murderer out of prison on parole against the counsel of those who run the prison, and then that person goes out and does something heinous to somones family member...that sjust a risk i can't afford to take.

The Dragonborn is supposed to be the defender of skyrim...he can't risk that...he just can't...i stand by the Blades...the Blades are right....Parthurnaax is a threat...if left alive one day he WILL turn on humankind...its in his blood...he can't help it...the difference between him and the Dragonborn is the Dragonborn is mortal, Parthurnaax is not...given enough time...and Alduin out of the way....thats just an enabled for Parthurnaax to go back to his old ways...its only a matter of time...i cna't risk him hurting the people of Tamreil in the future...be that future 100 years or 1,000...not if there is something i can do to prevent it...i stand by The Blades!

ow jesus christ...i see this argument has escalated into long-winded pointless posts trying to dominate eachother, and also takign the mic out of eachother...

people just cant resist can they?

a moderater should lock this thread now since it is going nowhere

fisher

Yes, and that is why I prefer to not kill him.
Well, that and the fact that he allows you to meditate on the words of power.

Source?

Look, the entire thing is laughable. Even in Skyrim, where motivations and actions of characters are laughable in general, the whole Paar thing is especially laughable. Here's basically how the whole situation looks like:

Delphine: "Ooops, forgot my hat... oh, and one more thing. Kill Paarthurnax"
PC: "What? Why?"
Delphine: "He's a dragon so he must be bad. Do it or I'M NEVER SPEAKING TO YOU AGAIN! *stomps leg*"

Wow. Making a case here, lass. More importantly, this is all you get from the game as far as motivation goes. So first you learn that Paarthurnax betrayed Alduin and helped mankind learn the Voice to overthrow him, then you talk to him and he's a nice chap who helps you kill Alduin (while Greybeards would much prefer to sit on their asses and wait for the world to simply end I might add) and then... some woman tells you to kill him because "he's bad mmmmkay"...

Oh, and redemption character? Hardly. We simply know jack [censored] about what Paar was doing during the Dragon War and what his role was. So he was a general or something. "Wow, it's [censored] nothing". General Tulius is a general, do you see him wandering around countryside murdering random families and children? That's not something generals do, and since we can assume Paar was sympathetic to humans from the beginning(you don't go from slaughtering humans one day to betraying your own race to join them the next) he probably was not ordering genocidies. So there's no character arc whatsoever. And if there is, we don't know that because we aren't told anything!

You also learn Parth was once Alduin's lutienant and helped him subjucate mortals for some time.

Saying we dont know he killed people even though he was Alduin's general/luitent is kinda funny.

This thread essentially boils down to the differences between real life individual's morals. The argument here could probably go on forever.

I, for one, would never kill Paarthurnax, unless I had a valid reason to do so.

this, no where are we giving a valid reasonn or explained WHY we should kill Paar. Ultimatum aside, i felt like i was doign a Dark brotherhood contract on Paar because the only reaosnw e are given is that Delpie dosent like him "yes he has saved mankind by teaching them them the thuum to fight dragons AND he just helped save the world again by helping you kill Alduin BUT Hes a dragon MAN! he killed like a thousand people liek 1000 yrs ago! mmkay?............."

What really turned me away from the Blades was when Delphine said "Yes, he's helped us, but we don't need his help anymore." I mean, wow; way to treat your allies there Delphine. Is that the same fate that awaits me (Dragonborn) once I help rebuild the Blades? Count me out.

Delphine is right when she says: "i know parthurnaax betrayed the dragons helped humans but that doesnt make him better it makes him worse"

If he is willing to betray his own brother, then his treacery knows no bounds and he cant be trusted in the future.

Also read the books in sky haven temple to learn more about parthurnaax and talk to esbern before killing part for more background.

Agernir admits that what the Blades say is true about parthurnaax.

Agernir then goes on to say parthurnaax couldnt help it...so parth couldnt help himself and just had to go along with it and then one day he just wakes up and feels bad for people? No way

Parth only helped people to get what he wanted...the blades are not the ones trying to use the dragonborn parth and the greybeards are.

Parth only wants to defeat alduin to take his place...thats what this has always been about for parthurnaax...since he can never learn dragonrend he needs the dragonborn to do it for him.

Parthurnaax is a long time enemy of the blades, parthurnaax knows who the blades are when you ask him about it..he knows why they are after him...but he doesnt tell you the whole story...parth spent a large portion of his life enslaving the human race as alduins second, the second oldest of the dova.

Parth commited horrible atrocities. the blades were right to be seeking to bring him to justice for all these years...it doesnt matter "when" these thing occured, they still occureed...

Parthurnaax shows ZERO remorse for his actions and instead makes excuses...had partjurnaax actually just said

"im sorry for what i have done"

I would just let bygones be bygones..but he doesnt.