Super agree.

I thought this thread was going to be about sneaking up behind an NPC and pulling his pants down

The average person does not have to run from dragons. You are the the central character of a fantasy game world, you are special. So of course your above average. As for your ability I recall playing D&D and it was assumed that an adventurer type person could do extraordinary feats slightly beyond those of real world equivalents. For example a strong person in D&D was the equivalent of an Olympic power lifter, a very strong person even beyond that. Even a level 1 character in D&D was considered greater than almost any random npc(townsfolk,etc) in the world(who would be level O). I always felt something similar to this was in play in the rpgs I have played. By the very fact that I am an adventurer spending my days exploring, fighting monster,etc I am by default greater in ability than some random npc in town.

As for how running and sprint is handled, I hope you slowly regain stamina while running. And lose stamina while sprinting. That is how sprint normally works in games. You can sprint for a short period of time. Then there is a cool down(were you can still run). The sprint mods for the Fallouts worked this way, TW2 sprinting works this way and fps shooters and most other games with sprint(fps for example) work this way.

I don't understand why this would be one of those thing where we cross the line and say, "too much realism". It has no effect on the player and our gameplay, it is simply something that we notice in the game world. :shrug:

That was supposed to be taken as a joke. But, my point was that if you were running for your life, you're going to push yourself so hard that you will be totally exhausted when you stop running. And if would be much more realistic in a fantasy game where I'll be chased by dragons, that I'll actually get tired when I'm running away from them


Yes you are special . . . you are Dragon born. But I don't feel that the player character should start out as a superhero . . . or above average in any other way . . . in fact, you should actually start out a bit below average in some things, since you've been held in a prison . . . which should have had some sort of negative effect on your strength/endurance.


In Fallout 3, I never used the sprint mod, because I viewed it as a cheat, since the NPCs were unable to sprint. With my Realism Tweaks' Endurance module, your fatigue was slowly damaged while you were running, and the amount of damage per second was based on your encumbrance and health.

The more realism the better,it is in fact an rpg. If you want to be godlike, than use god mode. Don't cry about the immersion factor just because you want to be superman. Sorry about my rant but I'm sick of people trying to pursued bethesda into making this game an "action" game instead of an rpg. Don't get me wrong I love the action in these games but it should take some brains to play this not just a twitchy mouse and fast trigger finger.

It would make cases where NPCs have to follow you somewhat annoying in cases where they have less stamina than you.

I'd be for this if it's done right. NPCs in Grand Theft Auto tire out when they're running, so it can certainly work (and would add a touch of realism) if this happens in Skyrim. However, some characters, NPCs, whatever should be able to run a very long time without fatigue, especially if they're largely unencumbered.

Plenty of people IRL can run long distances, after all. This assumes, of course, that they aren't wearing this huge armor suit, carrying lots of items, etc.

Sprint is like that in a lot of games. TW2 for example npc don't sprint, a lot of fps shooters,etc. Just like npc's can't do dragon shouts,magic,etc, lot of stuff they can't do.

Of course for Fallouts sprint was a mod. Not part of the game, so I see were your coming from. But and I don't mean any offense to your mods, The sprint mods are far more popular than your Realism tweak mods. Of course both mods with sprint and your mod affect more than running/sprinting(though there is also a sprint mod by itself that also has twice the UDL of your mod) but Why have sprint if you can't use it? I except sprint to be handled similar to almost every other game with sprint. Not how your mod handles running, which in my opinion is not fun.

I did some testing for a mod recently called Gratuitous Violence a combat overhaul mod for MW, it has sprint in it. At first running still drain stamina with the mod, but after recommendations from me and the modders own testing, he not only got rid of the drain but added a slight regen while running, which makes sense, because otherwise you will never be able to sprint(as your stamina will always be near zero while out running around exploring).

My main point here is that your way of doing things in clearly in a very small minority. Just like many on this board that want this or that. There are things I like, that arent not popular. Thats were mods come in. And as long as Beth's game keep allowing mods I never get to worried about things, unless I know mods can't fix them.

If you're interested, I created a mod that does something similar using Action Points as the base. I've also added the ability of depleting Action Points while using weapons outside of VATS, which also affects fatigue. You can find it here, and you're welcome to make use of anything I've done in the mod if you like. Encumbrance is also a factor in how much your fatigue is affected.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15339

No offense taken. My Realism Tweaks makes the Fallout games a LOT more challenging, which is way more fun for me than the default game play was.
For my Encumbrance module, when your character has an encumbrance of less than 60%, you are able to run for roughly 24 game minutes, before having to take a rest . . . and you only have to rest for a couple of minutes before your Strain is back down to 0.

The most popular mods for FO3 on FO3 Nexus are not the ones that make the game harder. Animated Prostitution is way more popular than my Tweaks.


My FONV Realism Tweaks is currently rated #16 under the category of "Top 100 most endorsed files (Gameplay Effects and Changes)," and that is based solely on Nexus' endorsemants, not on actual interest. So I tend to believe that "my way of doing things" is not something that only a "very small minority" also enjoy.

Oh man, I just don't believe that one. Out of curiosity I gave it a try, and it was an absolute joke. Yet it's hugely popular.

I agree with this. This would be too much in my opinion, I kind of like my characters to have super-human running powers. Like a 'roided out version of Forrest Gump... lmao


bliviongate:

While I would say most people may not want a harder game, FWE is very popular and for all I know people are using that to make the game harder. Its my fav mod ever because its basically a giant options menu. I wish every game would have that.

As for changes I like, I always get the 2x damage mods. Which in some situation makes the game harder, in others it makes the game easier. Of course for the Fallouts I modified a lot of things, esp FO3(using FWE, XFO for NV not nearly as powerful a customizer). From slower leveling(3x slower was about right for me) to less ammo,meds and other items, to a hell of a lot of other options you could tweak with FWE. So while I might like the game out of the box more than you, I still like A LOT of tweaks. But thats for mods and I understand that and thing it makes sense(though the giant options menu would be nice).

As for how your mod handles running, well that does not sound bad. But its really I am talking about how running is handle when you also have a sprint ability that drains stamina rapidly.

You have less than 7,000 UDL's. Out of how many computer players? A million perhaps. Just to get a sense of how many people are even using mods, FOMM has about 118,000 UDL, so you have %5 or so(at best) of mod users DL your mod. Very small minority.

Which again is not a dis on your mod, I have used mods much less popular than that. My point being your style of gameplay is just not very popular. And I agree with a lot of your changes(and a lot I don't). I like slower leveling, skills mattering more and other things your mod does. But that masses don't. Just look at the critical acclaim for OB and FO3 to see that(and sales even more so).

I'm aware of that. And I'm not trying to promote my mods here . . . I made my mods for myself, for the way that I wanted my own game to play. I just took the extra effort (which is considerable) to make them available to others . . . not to win a popularity contest.

The problem is not so much that RPGs have been "dumbed-down," but that so many gamers have pushed for this "dumbing-down." Most of today's gamers seem to put "fun" (as in killing as fast as possible, and being god-like) way above challenge.

This is why I wrote the following in my opening post in this thread included the following: "Based on the attitude that I have seen on this forum, most gamers expect their character to be better than the average NPC, right from the start of the game . . . so this is what the developers have been giving them. Personally, I prefer a level playing field, where I have to struggle to survive. Few here want any real consequences . . . things like getting tired just get in their way of having fun (which seem to consists mostly of killing and being god-like)."

Right, a lot of RP gamers don't seem to realize that if you make it too realistic for the sake of immersion, you no longer have a game, you have a simulator. Despite what you think, you DO NOT want to play a simulator. A company marketed a tank game as "very realistic and immersive" and it sure was: The enemy tanks could one-shot your tank (it was a WWII game and reactive armor wasn't on the tank you drove), your treads could be crippled and you'd be dead in the water, and my favorite, dying was permanent, so even if you fought your way through every level but the last, taking a tank shell because of a miscalculation on your part meant that you were starting back at level one. No exceptions. Oh and you had to pay more than $100 for a controller designed to emulate the experience of driving a tank.

I could easily understand why the game both never saw a sequel and was featured on AVGN.

^Haha, that's a bit extreme. I'm not talking about something that would completely ruin your game, maybe something just for hardcoe mode for those of us who like a more difficult game.






Arwen, I enjoy your realism mods and wouldn't play without them. I'm really looking forward to what you would do with Skyrim to make it more challenging .


Anyway, I think we should also be clear in our posts about who should get exhausted after running, whether its your hero, certain NPCS, all NPCs, certain races, etc. And also about whether this should just be an animation or whether it should actually affect gameplay and your abilities.

I'd like all of it, to be honest. Like others have said, your hero shouldn't be Superman right from the start. It should be difficult for you to run from dragons and other enemies at first, but the more you play the more you build up your endurance. So this would not only be an animation but also a gameplay effect where you would be forced to slow down and maybe in hardcoe mode (if there is one) you actually collapse from overexerting yourself.

I think all NPCs should vary according to their obvious physical fitness. An elderly person or someone with a more sedentary life should not be able to outrun someone who walks around all day through the wilderness. I also believe that, while it might unbalance them a bit, certain races should run slightly faster and for longer. The most obvious one would be Khajiits. This could be some sort of race specific perk.

Then in that case, the sprint system should suffice. When your stamina bar hits 0, you can just walk and run.

Has a sprint system been confirmed?

Out of curiosity, what parts are you planning to build a new computer out of with 899.98 USD?

Yes, a sprint system has been confirmed.

And if it's anything like the sprint mod for F:NV, I'm sure I'll quite enjoy it.

LOL I LOoked at this and thought your talking about pantsing people and I was going to say your crazy!

Yes, I would enjoy to see this on NPCs. I've had SO MANY NPCs in Morrowind run away from me and I just can't catch up. Its annoying as all hell.