One thing I've never really seen discussed before is every human NPC's amazing ability to run across great distances without showing any signs of being tired. This problem is present in the Fallout series, as well. People just instantly stop like they were never running in the first place.

I think it would add a lot to realism if NPCs would show their fatigue. Maybe their running speed would slow down after a while, and then maybe they would come to a stop, bend over with their hands on their knees and pant for a while. It's difficult and would take far too long too to describe all the various little things people do when they're exhausted from running, but you guys get the idea.

What do you guys think? Maybe it could also include your character when you view them in 3rd person?

Too much realism does not = a good game. Waste of Dev. time.

No thanks.

Well your avatar is already consider to be a hero type character, very exceptional abilities,etc. So I would not want any annoying stuff interfering with my running. When I run out of stamina I can no long sprint, thats it. But no running penalty's. Humans are some of the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom anyway. A top marathon runner can out run a horse over a long distance. Plus this is fantasy so even with armor,etc we should be able to do the same, as for npcs sure why not have more animations(dev time permitted of course).

I don't see how this would be "too much realism" or even that much of a waste of time. If I recall correctly they even have this in the GTA games.

It's just one of those small things that would make a big difference. Also, it might solve the problem of eternally chasing an NPC. After a while they'd have to stop and then you could kill them or whatever without having to try to land a spell or arrow if you're a melee fighter. It's a realistic method for catching up to people.

Alright yeah, I could see how it would get annoying with your hero. No longer being able to sprint but not being completely immobilized I think is a happy medium.

But I think it would be great for NPCs.

Npc would be cool, watch some dude run in to town from the country and bend over putting his hands on his knees. I want to see as many animations as Beth can cram into Skyrim. More=Better when it comes to npc animations that add life to the world. All jobs for example npc will be doing is going to make for a much more immersive world than OB(and of course any TES before that were people just stood there staring).

Well sprint probably drains you stamina so it will be limited in that way, otherwise your movements will probably be at a mild jogging pace. I wouldn't mind if you slowed down and your character bent over and started panting though. If you stop completely I think your stamina should regenerate faster than if you start jogging too and with the animations I think it would be a nice touch.

I believe that the Sprint mode also has some panting sounds when you reach the end of your sprint. Someone commented about it after seeing a preview video, though I never saw it myself.

Humans are actually the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom, in good enough shape a human can run for hundreds of miles without stopping. It's actually one of the most exceptional things about humans along with our opposable thumbs and intellect. It's partially due to our ability to run on two legs as well as our capacity to efficiently breathe and release heat while running far more effectively than most animals.

To this day, in some tribes, human hunters literally chase animals into exhaustion to kill them.
See-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

I'm all for realism but it's actually not really a stretch to have characters that can run non-stop for hours on end. Obviously in modern society this kind of endurance running isn't as common as we're out of shape, but Skyrim won't be set in an age where so many humans travel while sitting in vehicles and spend much of their recreational time lounging around.

That's all nice and stuff, but the issue here isn't really about whether or not humans can run long distances.

It's about the effects of doing so and how they behave after they've reached their "hundreds of miles" limit.

Well the point is humans can run(although not at a dead sprint) for 24+ hours without stopping for breath as you suggested, without slowing down significantly assuming they pace themselves reasonably - it's certainly possible for a human to run at a typical Bethesda gate for more hours than you'd likely ever continuously move in the game.

You actually see it in the trailer at 1:48, Dovakhin is panting.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4848/skyrim26.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSRtYpNRoN0&t=1m48s

Simply for aesthetic purposes it would be cool if your character would huff and pant if they are at low stamina. Perhaps not outright stop you from sprinting, but if you go into idle or start walking after sprinting, or are simply running low on stamina, it would be cool if your character would huff and pant while they regain stamina.

These points you're making are still very absurd. It's very nice that some humans are capable of achieving that endurance, but I would find it utterly ridiculous for every NPC encountered in Skyrim (including the elderly) to not show any signs of fatigue whatsoever after running a good distance. Even athletes who play sports today show obvious signs of fatigue after just a few hours--walking around with their hands on their hips, taking large breaths, perspiration, etc.

You know what I'm talking about. In Oblivion or Fallout an NPC would just suddenly stop and mechanically revert to their relaxed animations as if they were robots. Or if they ran up and initiated conversation they would instantly freeze and talk without any heavy breathing (though I suppose the awkward-zoom-style conversations of those games is partly to blame).

The point is, not every single NPC can be the epitome of human endurance and for them to, once again, not show any signs of exhaustion will, once again, make them look ridiculous and unrealistic.

Well everyone has a sixpack and are built like sprinters in OB and FO, so it makes sense :biggrin:

Having one exceptional ability (dragon shout) does not make a person exceptional in all other abilities. I expect my character to get tired, since I get tired when I run . . . if this is not in the game, I'll likely mod it, like I did in FO3 and NV.

I'd be will ing to bet that the majority it the people here who don't want their character to get tired, would have a hard time running even 5K (3.3 miles).

Other than being born with this one ability, your character should be average at best in other areas (at the beginning of the game). Based on the attitude that I have seen on this forum, most gamers expect their character to be better than the average NPC, right from the start of the game . . . so this is what the developers have been giving them. Personally, I prefer a level playing field, where I have to struggle to survive. Few here want any real consequences . . . things like getting tired just get in their way of having fun (which seem to consists mostly of killing and being god-like).

Sorry for the rant, but is it any wonder that games are being so streamlined, since this seems to be what most of today's gamers want?

I totally read NPC as PC in the OP's post - in my defense I've been awake far too long. >_<

It's certainly true that not all NPCs should be good long distance runners. I see no reason to limit the PC in this way though - certainly after sprinting but not from standard jog/running that serves as kind of your standard movement in TES and other recent Bethesda games. It annoyed me in Morrowind having an empty fatigue bar all the time just from moving the only other speed than walk/sneak.

I agree 100% with Arwens post, I dont want any adavantage over NPCs and I feel that fitness should come as you increase in level, not right at the start of the game...
but i also feel it adds to immersion to have heavy breathing sound effects after exerting yourself,I like the effect in games that have it(as long as the sound effects are decent)
tired animations and visible breath(in the cold) would be cool too

So, every time I come to this page, I somehow misread the title of the thread.

First couple times, it was "Pantsing NPCs?"

Just now, it was "Painting NPCs".

:rofl:




...you know they were talking about aesthetics, right? "When you run for awhile, you should pant like you're exerting yourself." Not reduced difficulty, or no stamina/fatigue system. Aesthetics, not gameplay.

@Kiralyn2000: this is the opening post in this thread.

Good for me because these are the kinds of changes I want. And I hate being god like and killing is just one of them many things I enjoy about TES. I don't want my character getting losing stamina while running if they do I would never even get a chance to sprint. As I would never have any stamina.

And of course your character is above average, your going around fighting monsters and treasure hunting all day, while other npcs are not doing anything nearly this amazing. But as for your concerns thats were mods come in, and do your own mods and have your own following for those that prefer that kind of game. Works for everyone that way.

When was the last time you got tired of running and stopped and bent over to pant? First of all, you're not supposed to completely stop after running, and second, no one does that unless they're a fat guy. They have sprinting in, which you obviously won't be able to do forever unless it drains fatigue or something in which you have to use spells/potions. Jogging, however, you can do for hours even in real life. Yes it's harder with weight, but I'm sure that'll drain fatigue as well.

For me the Oblivion mod Realistic Fatigue nailed it. The more you carried the bigger the drain on your fatigue bar as you ran, or even walked up hill. at a certain point you start panting, later the panting gets louder with a bigger chance of stumbling and falling. Worked for NPCs too. It's grat to see a bandit with a huge war hammer come running uip a hill to attack you, only to collapse exhausted at your feet.

It would be wonderful if Skyrim had tthe Realistic Fatigue systerm along with some good additional animations (hands on knees etc).

When was the last time you were chased by a dragon?

Sprint can be implemented in a way that doesn't drain ALL your fatigue. And the average person cannot "jog for hours" . . . and how many can jog up mountains . . . wearing armor, and carrying 100+ pounds on their back?

I totally agree with you, Arwen. :thumbsup:

I am interested to see how the fatigue system will work. But either way there should be a mod or two that work well for this. (sorry console people...we pity your plight. Really.) But all this shows how fatigue potions should become much more important. I don't recall ever drinking very many in oblivion.