Why the hell does everyone agree with that post? Why do you all want a few abilities to be abusable? How the hell does that make it more like an RPG????

This!!!! Forever and Forever!!!!



It's not overpowered at all. It's a single player game and if you are too easily temped into using a system that you think is broken, then I think you need a few lessons in willpower. Just because you don't like the way someone else MIGHT play the game, doesn't mean it should be changed. It is as simple as "just don't use it" because the game is single player and if you don't use it, you never have to worry about running across someone else who is using it. There will always be some system in a game that is going to be abused to some extent. I personally don't see a problem with paralysis the way it is. I think it's meant to be this way. Let people be creative when they are playing the game. It's about fun. And if I think it's fun to enchant my weapon with 1 second paralysis in a single player game, then that's my prerogative, and it doesn't affect you one bit. Leave it be.

Argh! I feel like I'm going insane! So you guys actually WANT to be able to kill super tough enemies at level 1 easily because of a 1 second paralysis spell? I don't even

don't worry dragon, the GI quote alleviates my concerns. They don't want cheating.


100%cham, constant paralysis, 100% absorb/reflect = cheating. "hey guyz i can beat the game in 1 hour at level 8"

Yes, I do want to be able to do that if the mood strikes me to do so. And when I don't feel like killing "super tough" enemies at level 1 easily then I won't. And since you are so against the idea of doing so, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO! *gasp* I know I know it's unbelievable that you actually have the choice the play the game the way you want. Don't worry, you'll get used to that feeling. Smdh you people complaining about having freedom in a RPG makes me lose hope in humanity.

Because IRL it's just the same. Bring a gun to a swordfight, win.

Also, after a short period of time it gets boring and you don't use it anymore.

Well, why don't we just make it that choosing illusion just puts up a screen that says "Congratulations! You have won the game!", and gives you infinite health, fatigue and magicka when you choose to use any spell from it. That will be fun for people who want a funa dn challenging game and also want to practice illusion.

Because that suggestion is outlandish and you're only saying it out of frustration because you dislike the fact that other people like to play the game differently from you.

The original suggestion is outlandish. How is it a good gameplay design to force players to limit their own choices in the game (which makes it LESS like an RPG) in order to not have an instant win button?

How fun would watching your favourite TV show be if the main character could always win, every time, without even trying? The fun is in the journey to power. Being instantly powerful is NOT the way to make an RPG. It defies the whole concept. If you like that so much, go play an incredibly easy beatemup and leave RPGs like ES to be balanced and challenging.

I KNEW removing the attributes was a bad idea, because obviously without willpower you are helpless.

No one is forcing you to do anything!! You have to CHOICE to do whatever you want of your own free will. Your idea is the one limiting players choices in the game.

Lets look at it for a moment, lets give the players the options to enchant items and create spells however they like (my idea) OR lets limit those options and suffocate the creativity of the players (your idea) Hmmmm it's pretty clear which one is forcing something upon the players. I'll give you a hint, it isn't the one that leaves the game the way it is.

And lets be fair, Oblivion was neither balanced, nor challenging. It's hardly anything more than a hack 'n slash spam-fest to get from point A, to point B, then back to point A again.

Again, this is about player choice. If you don't want to be instantly powerful, then don't be instantly powerful. The game will very likely ship with a construction set anyway so even if the developers place any limitations on enchanting and spellmaking, they can be lifted with a few key strokes in the CS. So what do you suggest next? No Construction Set? Geez go sit down and eat some ice cream or something you don't belong on these forums.

Oh, my god. Look, if you take one option that could be balanced and it is unbalanced, making you overpowered, then anyone who doesn't want to take it CANNOT use that option! Ergo, less freedom! Why do you think companies put years and years of effort trying to make games more balanced? Because an unbalanced game HAS NO POINT. If everything was superpowerful for me to use I could always try using a bit of my self control to only press the attack button once every twenty seconds, but would that be fun? No, it wouldn't. Who are you to decide that I don't belong here simply because I don't want stupid, broken and exploitable and downright broken game mechanics? And you know, if you really, for some insane reason, think it's fun to play as a demigod rather than actually having something to strive to in the game, why don't you just put the difficulty slider down to minimum? That way, it's so easy you don't even have to use a spell to be supremely powerful. You can just do whatever you feel like with no consequences or challenge! Wouldn't that be so much better? Then, you can leave the ordinary person who doesn't want a pointless killfest to be able to enjoy whatever type of character they want to use, even if that character wants to paralyse people.

The only thing they need to really do is up the charge use for enchantments and make it cost more magicka. Then you can go ahead and spam an enchanted sword but if it only has like 10 charges on it you probably won't kill anything.

A good RPG works like this.

Try, try, try, try, try, achieve.

What you want to do is this.

Achieve, no reason left to try.

What you are saying I should accept as a reasonable alternative is

Do not try. Do not achieve.

Right on bro. :mohawk:

And if I want a speed boost that lets me run across the whole map in under 5 secs then I should have that. If you don't like it don't use it.

Also i should be able to fly like Neo with my levitation skillz. If you don't like it don't use it.

And i wanna base jump off the throat of the world and land unharmed in 6 inches of snow. If you don't like it don't do it.

/ sarcastic rant

:swear:



If anyone doesn't belong it's you pal.


Completely agree.

This entire post is about PARALYSIS and you ASSUMING that people are going to take advantage of using a 1 second paralysis, which, in 8 years of playing elder scrolls games I HAVE NEVER DONE. And I can, quite frankly, see the ABSOLUTE EASE of not using it. If you want to use paralysis, then make a enchantment/spell that you feel is more realistic. I do not see anything "broken" about paralysis and you are the very first person I have ever had the displeasure of seeing complain about it. If you want a different system in place when using paralysis, then MOD IT! It's that simple. But you assuming that everyone is suddenly going to start being demigod's because of this "problem" that you see is ridiculous. I tend to play Elder Scrolls games with the difficulty slider at about 75%. I in no way shape or form play an "easy" game. The use of paralysis is not forced upon any player and furthermore, the use of paralysis in the way that you suggest is most certainly NOT FORCED. You clearly think we all play the game the same way you do, and you are assuming that everyone here would suddenly drop our unique play styles to come and take advantage of this very miniscule "problem" just to get through the game. Which, imo, is arrogant.

Magic is overpowered entirely. We can't just take it out or create special cases like those.

@Dragonbone,
There is something called "Warrior's Code". A warrior is not a murderer. I think you can use it for your character. I use it myself. And constant effect paralyses is not the way of code.

Sometimes, I make a character which don't follow a code.

Be smart, achieve.

We bring our choices and consequences in TES. This is the way it is.


Although, making it costly can work. It should exist exclusively in poison form rather than magic form.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

1) Unfortunately some people cannot control themselves, they power level, power play then complain the game is broken.
2) Unfortunately some people just don't understand that RPG is about pitting your character build against the world, compromising or returning to battle some other day or making use of the freedom the game allows to balance your character in they way you see fit.

Unfortunately, it appears that Todd is once again on his "all battles shall be brutal, combat must be protected by limiting buffs, everyone must enjoy the fight" trip. :shake: Not only is level scaling still in (1) but the part in GI explaining how character level progresses with regards to skill level and the assumed removal of abilities sound suspiciously like he IS trying to balance all character builds so they fit more nicely into this level scaled world.

The first problem with a level scaled world is that not all character builds conform to the "arms race" build required to keep pace with the scaling. The level progress change may help with this and the removal of attributes that would be a distraction to the arms race (forcing +5s or using +3s for something RPish instead of combat based) should certainly help but all these changes are doing is removing player choice in order to justify the level scaled world. I don't care how much sugar they coat the pill with, this is what they are doing.

Of course the second problem with a level scaled world is the lack player instigated challenge ie facing a mob of higher level just for the hell of it.

And the third problem with level scaling is the lack of mystery, tension and surprise.

We've told him so many times yet it appears he still has to prove that he is correct.

So, I think the balancing has begun, not only will we now lack challenge and suspense but he is attempting to make archetypes of a given level equally viable in any given situation. This latter, not by clever design ( a locked door, a friendly trader to bribe, a dark passage to sneak along etc) but by brute force manipulation of damage, hit points and mob level. Once all archetypes are equally valid, a whole chunk of player choice goes out the window.

... I think

(1) Yes, it has been confirmed that the scaling in Sk will be closer to that in Fo3 than it is to that in Ob. This may be good news or it may be a meaningless platitude: the configuration of the scaling mechanisms is different between Fo3 and Ob (good news, though Fo3 was better but not great), however the actual scaling mechanism used in Fo3 and Ob is exactly the same (whoops, they wouldn't talk in tongues just to confuse us, would they? )


tl;dr. Merari, you are totally correct, however I have a nasty feeling that some of the already known changes are designed to explicitly address the perceived issues of balance and exploit and overpowered characters. Not because it makes for a better RPG but because some complain and because Todd wants to prove his level scaling is a good idea.

Now, where is that sceptical thread

I give up on you people. You want a game to be completely unbalanced and expect that people will just 'not try' to be the best they can, simply because the game has made it to easy. There's no logic in that.

Figuring out exploits is half the battle, the other half is exploiting that knowledge for a reward. So long as creativity has a part in the game and there are rewards in that game there will always be exploits in some form or another. The only way to remove all exploits, 1 sec paralysis on weapon included, would be to restrict creativity. Dragonbone, you seem to be worried that people will take advantage of exploits because it will imbalance the game.

Now I ask, imbalance the game for who?

Exploiting a feature of a game at the disadvantage of no one is just enjoying the game. In multiplayer games this can ruin the fun of other players, but fortunately TES games are solely single player. If you hate these exploits so much then avoid them, just treat them like cheat codes or console commands. Limiting these features upsets many, but including them only upsets the few lacking in will and tempted by the fruits of such exploits.

Searching for tactical combinations of weapons, effects and so on can be fun, but not if a vewry basic effect can make you unbeatable. Then it shifts into stupidity.

As a mage I always get pretty offended when people want to gimp spells. The whole point of becoming a mage is to become a force to be reckoned with.

I've wrestled control of the very universe into my hands like a god. Deal with it.

On the other hand I wouldn't mind the spell taking up huge amounts of energy as long as it lasted long enough.

But that's also the point of becoming a warrior or assassin/thief. Mages shouldn't have an advantage over the other 2.

Noone is saying to take out effects/spells or to make them useless. Just tweak them or the NPC-AI so that the spells/effects don't trivialize the entire game at even low levels.


Make the NPC catch on to what you're doing and take proper action. After the 4th paralyze make him dodge the next or activate spell-reflect ability of some sort.

Attacking an NPC even while 100%chameleon should make him swing wildly into the air, and if he hits you he will know to hit in that location more and attack you as normal.



SmartAI > nerfing.

Paralysis was OP because a 1s spell would last in fact 5-6s the time it took for the target to stand up. They should have implemented Paralysis not as that ragdoll effect but as a kind of complete petrification of the target in place so that as soon as the effect wear off, he's back in condition to fight instantly.