All automatic melee weapons (Chainsaw, Ripper, Thermic Lance) have lower DAM, but they also all ignore DR/DT. They are no joke.

Alright, thanks for the assist Sawyer.

Gotta note the specific damages and ignoring DR/DT. Might as well also note the Unarmed weapons as well.

Now, to check up on the update post from a few days ago and see if there's anything I can find to look for after this. Should of done that after looking at the spreads earlier.

@ Skyline: Thanks. Good and timely thread. Info much appreciated.

@ Josh: Thanks also. Looks like some pretty good work. Thanks to you and all the staff that worked on the update.

-gunny out.

You're welcome. I know not everyone will be happy with all of the changes, but overall I hope the majority of players like them.

So how much better are NCR Troopers now with the Service Rifle upgrade?

In my experience, patched SR-equipped troopers are significantly tougher. For example, they typically wipe the floor with Fiends.

I'm certainly happy. I'm actually near ecstatic. These tweaks are very near what I would have done, to the letter.

A few more quick things that are less easy to quantify:

* Some ammo prices were changed (mostly increased).
* .223, .38 Special, and .44 Special should now typically appear on merchants as "loose" rounds in the Ammo section instead of boxed Misc items that spawn ammo.
* Generally, merchants, and specifically, the Gun Runners, should carry a lot more (in quantity) weapon mods and more (in quantity) ammo for sale.

I am slightly disappointed that there is no added -DT on the other HV ammo, like the 5.56; i guess 5mm needed a boost more than the others, but still.

I hope not too much more. One of the things I enjoy the most in the game is going on mod hunts.

-Gunny out.

For the next patch can you create an incendiary 5.56 hand load ammo?

Well, like you said. A wild cat .204 has stupid velocity, and if the 5mm is similar I can very well see the low dmg but high penetration. Like a 3500fps ice pick. Like the M855 blowing thru SAPI plates, and such similar.

Part of this decision was practical: the 5mm weapons (Assault Carbine, Minigun, Avenger) were perceived as falling short by a good chunk of players. There are only three 5mm weapons, so tuning the ammo and the weapons was straightforward and did not touch a large number of forms. .308 weapons and 5.56mm weapons are more numerous (especially 5.56mm) and one of the .308 weapons cannot, for technical reasons, be patched (the Automatic Rifle). The .308 and 5.56mm weapons are also not as generally derided as the 5mm weapons were. In my mind, it was more important to tune the 5mm ammo and weapons than to try tackling the .308 and 5.56mm weapons + ammo types/subtypes. Sorry.

IRL, the most you'd get is a longer burning tracer. The 5.56 doesn't have a lot of mass to begin with, and making an incendiary would only be suitable for starting brush fires from a few hundred meters away. There wouldn't be enough incendiary material to be all that different from tracers. The US Army exp. with this idea after Vietnam and was scrapped for these reasons. For any significant effect, you'd need a .30 cal at least.

Good to see that, pre-patch it could be a real pain trying to get a specific weapon mod. On a related note, were the bugged vendor containers fixed? Certain vendors do not refresh their merchandise no matter how many game-days you wait, which could be a real headache when trying to maintain supplies of some ammo types. Ones that (for me at least) reliably exhibit this behavior include:

Sergeant Contreras in Camp McCarran- this applies even if you have unlocked his 'special' inventory, which itself appears to be bugged as I've never seen said merchandise appear for sale
Blake at Crimson Caravan
Mick in Freeside
The Boomers' Munitions Master in Nellis Hangars
Alexander at the Gunrunners' outpost at 188 Trading Post

Needless to say this puts a sizable crimp in attempts to unload my swag, since a goodly percentage of the vendors end up having nothing to give me for it.

I don't know if they fixed this (maybe I should go try it, huh?) but I would say it was definitely a known issue, but it was easily worked around. If you were unaware of the work around, all you had to do was save in the cell, the restart the game. Since frequently saving and restarting a Fallout/Gamebryo game is usually a damn good idea, the work around really isn't that much of a hassle, at least to me. Plus, you never have to wait the 4 days from Wed until Sun by doing this.

-Gunny out.

Uh, sorry for the silly question, but does that mean DLCs cannot be patched? What about those bugs in DLCs?

Each dlc is it's own seperate .esm file. The dlc would have to have it's own patch.

-gunny out.

That confused me too, as I saw mods for the police pistol on WMX.\

\\never mind\\ Gunny already answered my question.

I'm in the 'like' boat.

The increases in explosives, along with Splash Damage working from what I can tell, can will lead to be a very fun, and very kill-happy character. Now all that needs to happen for the next patch is for all Explosive weapons to be affected by the Demolition Expert Perk for the console players, and then any doubts about Explosives should be put to rest.

As for guns, I'm fairly happy that how you went ahead with separating lever-action from bolt-action weapons, giving LA weapons a bit more spread, which appeals to the 'Western' theme of the game in my opinion, as with high damage should come less accurate shots, again in my opinion. The Gobi Rifle finally seems to be able to shine as a unique weapon from the sniper rifle now, compared to when people were just ditching it for the normal rifle with 5x crit back when the game first released. Can't forget about the Assault Carbine nor Minigun as well. With the 5mm ammo adjustment, and their own weapon stat changes, they truly are more viable options now than they ever were.



Oh interesting on the rounds. I honestly thought they were gonna just be exclusively boxed. Glad to see I was wrong. Plus it makes a bit more sense as the only things that should be boxed are bulk and surplus ammo. Hopefully, like Gunny said, the increase isn't too great in weapon mods. However, I wouldn't complain all that much as some mods from WMX elude me like the wind...

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Alright. I'm about to go off. Tomorrow, I'll work on adding the ammunition changes for Gun-related weapons as I should have all of the ammunition types that were affected in my safehouse.

Has something been done to the DT system? Or to the 5.56 ammo?

I went Legion-hunting earlier, with a Varmint rifle, a Service rifle and a 10mm SMG. and I couldn't believe how poorly the 5.56mm ammo coped with Legion armor. As soon as I ran out of AP ammo, even sneak headshots to the head weren't one-hit kills on any Legion soldier who wore a helmet. It used to be much easier before the patch. Hell, I once took on two Radscorpions with their insane DT with a 9mm SMG (not by choice; the damn things respawned from under my feet after save/load at the Mesquite Mountains Camp Site) and won!

check the 12.7 pistol. it seems damaged decreased.

Nope, untouched. A misperception.

Why wasn't the 12.7mm weight fixed? It still weighs 0.0064, which is less than a .22LR. I think someone added an extra zero and that's supposed to be 0.064, because there's no way a 12.7mm (.50) would weigh less than a .22LR.

So... waiting months for another patch. Haven't touched the game since January and the up coming patch for the consoles like the 360 is updating the weapons mistakes... nothing of the radio fixed, monster stuck half way above ground and half way underground, or any other glitches fixed...Look like i'm going be waiting for another patch then if thats what that patch for the 360 is going do...

Yea not going be happy along with alot other people going be any bit happy.

Joey