I mulled this over as I tend to do, And I thought about something Robco protectron posted elsewhere (the gist being Fallout america is pretty much the worst bits of america amplified, well his was much better stated but ya true).

Then I thought the SS might certainly be a bit bitter about well, the whole being trick frozen, And just how likely it is you (you character) would actually stumble on another vault before ever meeting Zao, and learning there backstorys, and seeing indeed you were lucky considering what vault you could have been in.... Reading terminals almost anywhere are quite depressing and show the corruption along the way

It might dampen even the stauncist Patriotism, Heck By the time I found the sub I think I would have actually asked if he needed crew or could I hitchhike back, to see if china (what was left) was anything like what i had been told..

I actually wished I could ask him if he wouldn't mind company as we both traveled back to China.

But yeah, even when I had my character say, "To hell with you, you destroyed my country!" I still couldn't just ignore his plight. I roleplayed that as angry and bitter as she was, she decided (after much deliberation) that were the situation reversed, and she was stranded in post-nuclear apocalyptic China and was accosted by a random Chinese wastelander, she would want that person to help her get back to America. So she helped Zhao, even developed a little pity for him. She parted from him feeling sort of bittersweet, and with a twinge of hope that he'd make it home after all.

She later used Zhao's gift to lay waste to the Institute. "Bet you're smiling in that sub, Comrade," she thought with a smirk.

Yep, most Americans were very much behind WWII after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

It is very different in the Fallout world leading up to the holocaust. From reading lots of terminals, going back several Fallout games, it seemed like the American people were very tired of the War, there were riots all across the country, America was having trouble finding people for the military, one of the reasons they started shifting to robots. Even the President went MIA. Besides there is NO clear evidence of who fired the first nuc, many believe it was the US, so how could you blame a sub commander who was just doing his duty? Being my character is ex military (and myself in real life) he would have no trouble helping out the Chinese sub commander. After all by this time in the game I understand there is NO America, their is NO China, just people trying to survive.

There came a moment in my SS's adventure when he had to come to terms that the country he served....no longer existed...and to some degree, even betrayed him and his family.

Over 500 hours and I've yet to find this sub. wth..??

Don't tell me. I'll find it eventually. I hope

He didn't destroy America, it's weird how people associate the crime of a group to just an individual. The previous generation of Institute kidnapped your kid, so that means the current Institute needs to pay. He contributed to it, but he's not really the one who fired the nuclear weapons, actually, it never made clear who did. I don't hold anyone responsible unless they're directly responsible for the crime. Hell, I committed enough crimes by myself in this game, even while playing as a good character just by siding with any faction.

The Switchboard terminals answer the question of who launched first.....or more to the point, confirmed what Richardson said in FO2. As far as Zhao, he launched on command, no point in blaming him for that.

"You don't have to hate a man to kill him, but it helps".

I basically view it that everything before became largely irrelevant after the bombs dropped.

The Institute had done enough shady things already to justify making them pay, even if they didn't nab your kid 60 years ago.


And you'd be surprised at how many people are willing to blame the crimes of an entire country onto a singular individual. In Zhao's case, he's the only pre-War Chinese (and a soldier at that!) our Sole Survivor meets. It's understandable if he/she chooses to lay the blame on Zhao considering the war that destroyed the world took place mere weeks ago from his/her perspective, and he was more than likely responsible for that ka-boom we saw just as we were lowered into Vault 111.


I guess it just goes to show how much inner strength is needed to reconcile the fact that, in the end, that person on the enemy side is just a human as you are, and he may have been forced by politics to do what he didn't want, much like you. My Sole Survivor, by this point, realized that were the situation reversed, she would likely have done the same thing to Zhao's country so she really had no room to lecture and act morally superior to him. They were both victims of their respective nation's politics, and victims of the War in their own way.

Again, the same people who would blame Zhao for the end of the world would raise the old "Oh, so you were just following orders? Couldn't think for yourself what you were about to do? Some mystical force compelled you to [insert horrific action committed]?" card. That's why I considered it a character growth for my Sole Survivor, when she realized that were she a soldier in a US sub just outside China, she likely would've done to a Chinese city just what Zhao had done to Boston. She was a bit bitter about the whole thing, but deep down she figured if all he wanted was to go back home to China, he deserved that at the very least.

This is yet another reason the lack of a more peaceful ending irks me, because it'd be a great way to show that the Sole Survivor would not do the same thing in Zhao's situation.

The SS of either gender would know how MAD works....for all Zhao knew when the EAM came in we had launched on China first, and even if not the US was gonna launch on China either way so his refusal to launch would not have been reciprocated. By the time my SS found him, she had been out of the Vault over a year...more than enough time to accept that the decisions made by people Pre-War were not worth getting angry about, it's over and done with. Like in game, curiosity would have won out over "getting even" with Zhao for performing his duty to his people.

Now, OTOH, if I stumbled across Chairman Cheng, unlikely as that would be, things might well be different as he was the one who initiated the nuclear exchange. Even then, though, I'd like to hear him out and learn what happened.

Who knows, perhaps in the future we'll see a Fallout Beijing where we get to see how the war affected them Unlikely I know since all the other Fallout games were set in the US.

Personally I killed the submarine commander. Ok sure the war might have been 200 years ago for you and you've had plenty of time to come to terms with the aftermath but for me it wasn't 200 years ago: It was last week.

I had friends and family in and around Boston (probably), I had people I cared about, I had a partner and a kid, I had a life in Sanctuary Hills....and he took that away from me. He destroyed my life and the future with my family, he set us on a path that saw my partner killed in front of me and my son kidnapped. I cant blame my character for snapping and battering him to death.

I didn't kill him because he was a communist or an enemy soldier, I killed him because of everything he had taken from me.

Patriotism wouldn't be all that meaningless. It would be a pretty [censored] excuse to continue fighting a war that has been over for 200 years, though.

Zao and the SS have more in common with each other than they do with most of the people inhabiting the world. They know exactly what has been lost. Of all the people in the Commonwealth, only two others live with that knowledge, everyone else can only guess.

Nate, has an additional bond with Zao. Nora doesn't really have this bond, but being married to Nate probably understands the nature of it. The sad fact is that because they are warriors, even though they were on opposite sides. they are closer to each other than they are with the civilians of their own countries.

The war is over, they don't have to try to kill each other any more.

To clarify, I don't really mean that patriotism in principle would be meaningless. What I mean is basically that being patriotic in the sense of being loyal to the United States has become meaningless, because there is no United States anymore. A resident of Diamond City or Goodneighbor being patriotic in the sense of being loyal to Diamond City or Goodneighbor absolutely makes sense. But Daisy in Goodneighbor, who was around before the war, has no reason to be patriotic to the United States anymore. She's had over 200 years to come to terms with the fact that it doesn't even exist anymore. It's somewhat more reasonable for the Sole Survivor to still cling to patriotism for the United States because the last 200 years were basically a moment in his/her perception.

Just wish there was a way for us to tell Zhao that we were alive during the Great War/a soldier during that time. As far as he knows, we're a random Wastelander who has the option to get all uppity over something that happened 210 years ago. He'd probably be thinking, ‘What the hell? You weren't even alive back then!!’

Daisy also doesn't have any reason to have the Library made safe since there is nothing of value there.

She wants it made safe because she has fond memories of that specific building from when she was a girl and hated seeing it overrun by Super Mutants. She tells you exactly that. Presumably she goes there sometime after you clear it out just to reflect on her memories there, even if they don't actually show her doing this. She also fondly reflects on what the world was like before the war, but further explains that the world isn't like that anymore and that she's accepted that fact.

Let me see if I understand what you are attempting to say,

It is understandable and even permissible for Daisy to have strong feelings for a gutted building, but ridiculous to have them for a gutted nation?

I am not saying anybody does harbor any patriotic thoughts towards the country in the Commonwealth. What I am saying is that it is possible, The most likely candidates would be two ghouls, one synth and the SS.

The wiki gives a possible http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_film_treatment Personally, I like it and find it quite fitting...

That is from a canceled film idea that never made it past a rough outline.

Does she though?

I think I remember an option to tell her that the pre-war America was full of corruption and ugliness and she basically agrees, which is what gets her to believe that you're actually are from the pre-war world.

And? Nowhere did I say it was actual or cannon...

Old ideas get reused occasionally and I find it quite fitting for the universe...

I think it takes away from the enormity and tragedy of the event if The Great War was a result of one crazy guy, rather than a genuine geo-political breakdown between multiple nations. The work of a madman rather than the folly of humanity.

Kind of on the same level with aliens starting the war IMO. But to each his own.

He took nothing from you.....you were destined to lose everything years because of the actions of the US and Chinese governments. All Zhao did was turn a key when his HQ told him to...knowing that somewhere a US officer was turning a key that would snuff out everyone he cared about too. If you want to blame someone, you'd have to find Chairman Cheng and the fellow settling down on the Oil Rig, they're the ones who caused the war that claimed your family.

Didn't think about that, but you're right. The SS has more in common with Zhao than they do with all but a handful of people in the Commonwealth.....he understands.

That's not even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that being patriotic for the United States is meaningless because there is no longer a United States to which one can be patriotic. One can fondly reflect on what the United States used to be, but having a feeling of patriotism for something that hasn't existed in over two centuries is pointless. The library is still there. She can physically walk into the building and remember the times she spent there. She can fondly remember the United States. She can walk around anywhere and remember what it looked like before the war. But patriotism isn't really for a 'location' in the same sense as having fond memories of a library. Patriotism is a feeling about a nation. A nation is not simply a chunk of land. It is a system of government, industry, ideology, values, and much more. She can remember it, and she can remember being patriotic toward it, but it does not exist anymore. One can be as patriotic toward the United States as they'd like, but in a wasteland where the United States no longer exists, it serves no purpose.

You picked different dialog options than I did then. I picked the more positive option and in my case that was what made her believe that I was actually from the pre-war world. Her response is something along the lines of "wow, I guess you're telling the truth. It really was beautiful, wasn't it? The world has changed a lot. It's not so full of beauty anymore."

Wait really? So no matter what she agrees with what you say? I thought it was an actual test of some sort....

Holy hell dialog in F4 is just atrocious.