I don't think that word means what you think it means...

Anything is only Pay To Win if there is NO in-game method to obtain it.

Best solution to the whole issue is to make EVERYTHING craftable, lootable and Buyable and just leave it up to the players to decide how they want to go about getting it.

It is hard not to break the NDA in any discussion about the Imperial Horse, since I can't mention how fast it runs. So either a similar horse cost a whole lot of gold (The exact nubers would be NDA breaking). While every non-imperial account will probably be instantly broke when it comes to buying an horse at lvl 11, the player with an Imperial account can keep that amount in his/her pockets. I'm not gonna discuss if this is P2W, but sure is an advantage at the start of the game.

Nuf said.

Horses are ridiculously easy to get. There are beta testers with them every time. The price is hardly anything to gripe over. Maybe money is a little harder to come by because it's beta and they haven't finalized the loot tables in this build? Just a rational thought I came up with instead if saying OMG! P2W!

http://www.myelderscrolls.de/news/154-eso-interview-abomodell-itemshop-entwicklung

Comes from zeni so it does not break any nda, You will need to translate if you don't know german though

Edit: The video is in english though.

A temporary advantage that is achievable by other means is not pay-to-win. You can imply that it is and refuse to discuss it, but that does not make that implication warranted.

It's an advantage nevertheless, but not one that makes you better than anybody else. Better so?

The money you save can buy you a whole lot of lockpicks.

Throw in the word "temporary" and yeah, we're square. And it's completely reasonable to be annoyed by that. But if you call that pay-to-win... that's extreme hyperbole that completely derails and distracts from a legitimate issue.

I wanted to avoid that, since an advantage at level 11 is only one if you use it smartly. And I am not annoyed. Once you are max level, you laugh at this topic

As will everyone else - that's precisely my point.

The main problem is not that it's pay to win, which is most likely the direction they will eventually have to go. It's the fact that you're putting a preorder bonus in a game that has a subscription model, in a marketplace that is mostly F2P, a couple B2P's and then the WOW's of the world and any other subscription MMO. To me that is greed and very anticonsumer to have a preorder bonus and then a subscription model.

Easiest solution would be to either change the price model so that the bonuses are not a big deal or have the items be ultra rare drops in the world. The latter I think has a better chance of happening before launch.

Virtually all p2p games come with pre-order bonuses and CE bonuses this age. This is the first time I have seen things like a preorder mount cause such an issue and be called p2w.

+100...

I have no idea where all this rage is coming from about this.

How is this apples and oranges. Early access grants you more time over non-early access players to get money earlier and get highter level earlier. And the imperial horse costs less then normal horse so they have more money and can quest faster to level faster.

I don't mind both. In the end will laugh about that first horse payment. Because i could buy that horse in 5 days time of casual play.

Every mmo has something unique ingame when you buy a CE. How is this different. I am glad this time i get something usefull in a CE. After reading this entire topic twice i still cannot see any valid point about how this is p2w. Nobody wins who is on an imperial horse. It is not a race to get lvl 50 first or to finish the quests first.

The mount isn't an issue, it's the fact that you're putting a race behind a paywall with no legitimate way to get it outside of the CE and then you're also asking me to pay 15 a month as well, no thanks I'll pass.

Most people see the race as an issue, not a p2w issue, but another issue. This thread however is complaining about the mount being p2w.

Early access is an honest statement. I have the basic subscription and with early access I can play a few day earlier than people who didn't do that. It didn't cost more than normal access, so it's not P2W. It is just showing a good faith in the product you are buying. I have my horse will within these 5 days, so the Imperial horse is no advantage for people who wanted to pay more for something unique and didn't care about the early access. Everybody who can pay the subscription can join early, but not everybody can pay a little more for and get the Digital Imperial Edition. Big deal, I gladly shoot them off the white horses in Cyrodiil. They will notice that when they have tasted my arrow, their horse is not gonna save them.

That is why early access together with an standard edition is not an advantage.

I agree that every MMO has that but ESO is not every MMO

So you people are saying buying an 50X xp boost wouldn't count as P2W? Since all the other players who haven't bought it, can -theoretically- still reach the level cap(in a few years). Sorry guys, but that kind of thinking is stupid. Don't get bogged down by definitions, look at the core of the matter.

I don't know what is "technical" definition of P2W, or even if there is a technical definition for it. In my book; if you can buy ANYTHING that isn't purely cosmetic, that makes the game P2W. As a metter of fact sometimes even purely cosmetic items can be game changing. If you played DayZ you'd know how much advantage a ghillie suit gives a player.

As for the imperial horse; Yes it won't make your game instantly 100X easier, once they balance the economy, players will probably be able to buy a horse on pretty early levels. BUT it i don't think anyone can deny having a horse from get go will give player an advantege, no matter how small it is. This is the first step on a very slippery slope. I wish ZeniMax would have given imperial edition players the option to skin their EXISTING horse as an imperial horse.

While, i don't want to label ESO as P2W just yet, it's just one stupid mistake away from becoming one.

And what is a five day start then? If your going to use that as a definition, I know people who could reach max level in several mmo's in that sort of time.

Lets be frank, the horse is a small advantage, right up until others start buying them.

They are not selling 50X xp boost are they?

Feel free to stop supporting the game when they do.

Oh well people and their opinions. I don't think everybody will get on one line here. I will enjoy my white horse and i will enjoy you shooting me off it. I don't smoke so i can use that money to reward myself with a CE. I have earned it. Although i wanted it for the book and statue and map i will surely enjoy the imperial race and the horse

Well, what are you feeding your horse if the speed is so different?

I'd have been on my way towards one if I had concentrated on one character and not gotten a small case of restartitis and couldn't decide between dragonknight and nightblade....Collecting and selling things adds up eventually.

http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/eso-interview-with-maria-aliprando/

Q: Can you give us more details about the mounts?
A: They are all Horses. When you get a mount, and you can have multiple horses, you have to feed the horse every day. Depending on what you feed the horse, the horse will either get faster or it will be able to carry more inventory, you will get more inventory space, because you have a pack horse now … or you will be able to have a combat warhorse that would be resistant to caltrops, and getting knocked off your horse and things like that.

Q: Can the horse die?
A: The horse will not die, but you will get dismounted from the horse. We’re also working on naming horses. You can have multiple different horses, so if you want three different type of horses, like, this is my adventuring horse, this is my pvp horse, this is my speed horse, you can only have one with you. And you have to go to the stables in order to change your horses. Either you have to go to the town or in Cyrodiil you have to go to your base.

Q: So you can’t just spawn it right there?
A: No, you can’t just spawn a different mount wherever. You can’t just have all of them with you at once. Horse will change appearance as you feed it as well. So warhorses look different from pack horses.

Q: How do you feed it? You craft or…?
A: You go to the stable and you talk with stable master, and the stable master asks what do you want to feed your horse. And you say I want to feed him apples, carrots or something else. You can look at somebody’s horse and see if they have armor on the horse, or a special saddle packs on it and differentiate what kind of horse it is.

Q: How do you get mounts? Do you just buy them?
A: There is no level restriction, it is just pure cost. Right now it is 15 000 gold.

Q: Which is something that you can get in 5 levels?
A: The last time I bought a horse I got it at level 11, but I grind-ed the gold for it. But you could just have your friend give you the gold, and you have a horse. It might be an issue for the first few days and afterwards everyone will be able to have one quickly. The horse you get is just a horse, you have to feed it to make it more usable. The gold is just a barrier to get a horse, and then you can buy multiples if you want to.

Some rude posts have disappeared.

Folks, it is not acceptable on this forum to be insulting towards other members. If you can't behave in a respectful manner, your posts will go away.

It is a white horse, and NO different than other horses Nav.

The speed, inventory or whatever is all about feeding them the right thing which you can do with any horse, we've known that for a while from devs.