In Morrowind and Oblivion, knocking someone out was pretty lame/non-existent IMO. It just seemed like they got tired and lied down for a bit. You couldn't really get away with NOT killing enemies when sneaking through a dungeon, prison, cave, or anywhere else really. I want to be able to knock people out for a long period of time. I also want to be able to loot the bodies of unconscious people. I don't know whether knocking someone out like this should be a function of fatigue or what, but i want to be able to do it.

My proposed Sleep Spell, would be like this:

-There is a semi-fixed amount of time an enemy stays asleep if the spell ever succeeds
-The spells has a % chance to work. the stronger the spell the more % chance that the enemy will fall asleep
- A "100% chance to sleep" spell would only be attainable by the strongest wizards.
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1178724-peaceful-warrior/page__p__17441246#entry17441246 which i agree with: the % isn't flat, if target has more health and/or fatigue then the spell is less likely to succeed.
-http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1178724-peaceful-warrior/page__st__20__p__17441391#entry17441391 which i partially agree with: it should only work (or have a much, much greater chance to work) if the NPC isn't actively fighting you, or if you are hidden

I'm rather perplexed about how this whole "extended" knock-out system could/would work, so sorry i don't have any half-decent ideas about how it should be implemented, I'm gonna leave that up to you guys. I just know i want to be able to go through the game as a peaceful warrior (I'll still be slaying the dragons though)

it would be nice and all for the people who the idea of killing something turns there stomachs but i dont see it being all that usefull except to make you feel better about yourself. or possibly in situations where you accidently hit someone and you need them to go to sleep and forget the whole thing. by magical means or otherwise. or if your robbing someones house now thats where sleep spells or knockout punches will work wonders

Im pretty sure this would be VERY useful for some one who RPs a monk who cant kill any one.

or a thief who likes only having one fine to deal with if hes caught

I'm all for a knockout effect, but it should either be limited to sneaking (and then have a dice roll effect based on things like strength, agility, and luck) or exclusive to the Hand-to-Hand skill.

I really don't like the idea of a Sleep spell. If it was used effectively on the player, well, that would be the most annoying thing ever. If it was never used on the player, then I think it would make everything a little too easy. It would make being a vampire incredibly easy as well. Need to feed? Cast a Sleep spell on someone!

or a warrior who respects human sapient (and even just sentient) life, and doesn't see a bandit as a "bad" person who deserves to die, but a person put in a terrible situation.

so no sparing of mer or betmeri life?

sorry, for i am not knowledgeable, but i don't know what those mean.

elf or beast folk

If it had a flat % chance to work, then it'd probably end up this way, with it either being too powerful if the chance was high or too random to be useful if it was low. Maybe it's chance could mostly depend on the target's health and fatigue, so you could only put them to sleep if you've weakened them first.

The knockout attack could work similar to that, like a kind of hand-to-hand power attack that only works on a weakened enemy. It'd probably be most useful for guards, so they could deal with a mob of unruly NPCs in the street without killing everyone and people like Big Head would have a longer life expectancy.

oh! meric as in Mer... got it. well i fixed that post

Sleep spell I do not like.

Pass out before dying (staying on the verge of death) if finishing move is not used would be good.

This is a good idea, I'm going to add it to the OP with credit to you. thanks

I played a paladin character like this in Oblivion using the mod Vows and Covenants. It includes vows to the Nine for special abilities as long as you dont break their taboo and you can hold block and talk to a damaged or low level intelligent enemy to offer mercy for a price or for free.

If you take the vow of Mercy to Stendarr, you gain bonuses and a few holy spells, but fall out of Stendarr's favor if you kill an NPC enemy without offering the opportunity to yield. They would only yield if the enemy was on low enough health, or was substantially beneath your level and might surrender outright.

That mod really enhanced my roleplaying of a good and merciful warrior and it would be great to have something similar in skyrim, whether it's nonlethal knockouts or a sleep spell.

I think that would be cool. Something like in MGS where you knock the guy out and he wakes up a little later and goes into alert mode and hunts you.

Yes, some stealth games do this well.

You can go through ALL of Metal Gear Solid 2-4 without killing anyone, and that's pretty cool. (this includes MGS 1 too if you include Gamecube's MGS Twin Snakes)

Good idea. I added this kind of thing to the poll.

I actually changed my vote to this :tongue:

"I'm just going to knock out this enemy here." Smack! . . . Opps, Sorry, about that random bandit dude, didn't mean to brake your skull."

Knockout spell effects should hinge on the target's level and stats. It should have a decent base chance of casting success (say... 65%), and eventually maxing out at 95%. Targets resist a successful spell attack with a weighted bonus to resist derived from their own spell casting strength, and statistics.

Knockout melee attacks could deal 80/20 Fatigue/hitpoints, and improve over time with experience; (up to 97/3?). This would allow a novice to accidentally kill, and an expert to deliberately remove a threat with minimal injury.

Nah, killing is MANLY!

Only if you're a fool.

no percentages please. I'd rather a sleep effect [spells, potions, etc] could be had as well as a knockout. to keep it balanced it would have to be fairly limited. Maybe it would only work on npcs that arnt "acrtive" ie ones that arnt fighting you or attempting to fight you, probably with a better chance of casting it without them noticing at all.. And you'd have to be in the same room. Also many npcs could be trained to resist this so you cant use it on everone.

Only a fool would let his enemies live.

That depends on if he even needs to worry about his enemies.


good idea.

You let me live, and yes, that was foolish of you.

I'm trying to find a way to implement this with balance.
I'll be back when I figure it out.