So time has something to do with godhood?

Yes.

Gods can't "happen." Partially the point of a Dragon Break is to make Time acclimate to the "creation" of a god; basically, Time bends to make it as if the "new" god always existed.

Then how come everyone connected to the Knights of the Nine questline knew Talos wasn't always a god?

But if that was the case, then the past would have been changed so that Pelinal would have been able to destroy Umaril. But the face of the Divine is different now than it was back then, that's why things were different. And either way, Mannimarco became a god, even if he was a relatively weak god.

How do YOU know? The same way some people know Nerevar was killed by Vivec. The same reason that "Where Were You..." came from a later era by Fal Droon

As you said, SOME people acknolwedge the youth of Talos' godhood, not ALL.

I'm too tired to participate in this discussion anymore.

I think that the attack on the Chapel of Dibella, the inscription in blood, the Aurorans' attacks on the Chapels of Mara, Zenithar, and Arkay, and the fact that you face Umaril is ample proof that Pelinal didn't have Talos's assistance when he faced Umaril. Not to mention that the Prophet mentions that even the face of the Divine changes.

I'm a lore-newbie, but because Talos/Akatosh is the Enantiomorph [correct me, as I say I'm new player] doesn't that mean that because Talos is a God, he always was a God? Even if it has nothing to do with the Enantiomorph - he achieved CHIM, making him a god. He managed apotheosis. Because of that - and the crap of Dragon Breaks - he always was a God.

Time, in this instance is always the same. It keeps going. Occasionally it breaks, and anything that happens that causes the Break ALWAYS happened, as I understand it.

So, Talos became a God. Therefore he always was a God. Time actually has nothing to do with it.

So Pelinal must have had Talos' blessing.

*awaits flaming from various Lorekhans*

Nah, they all do. Man is finite and gods are infinite and when they combine it normally breaks things. I don't think every apotheosis rewrites history, even if it breaks it. We're plenty familiar with the mortal lives of most gods. Mannimarco, Talos and the Tribunal included. And although the Tribunal tried to hide their mortal origins, this doesn't need historical manipulaton so much as historical revision. The people are aware there was something before them, and that they had a beginning of some kind, otherwise the Anticipations wouldn't be anticipations.

Dragon Breaks are times of chaos where ordinary Time tries to eventually reconcile itself with novel concepts that are themselves timeless - the new god and its attributes - as described by Vehk in the Trial, but from looking at the histories, they don't usually rewrite it. There's no evidence for it.

It might have been lost in the noise, but I mentioned earlier that Pelinal's futuristic origin is intentionally ambiguous. He's counterpart is the Time Dragon. He's a star-wrought spaceman from a future time. Some times. This is the imagery of his associated elements, like that of the Tower-Spaceship that is Adamantia.

Allow me to note that the quotes of MK say that Pelly was from the future - they do not say that he was from different futures or differrent parts of the future.

Also as you all say he seems to be a sort of composite being - that might allow that different bits came from different times - just as a human is assembled from different components supplied by the parents and those components are assembled from materials gathered and absorbed at wildly different times and places, yet even so a birth is said to happen when the new human emerges from mum - shhhh, I never said naughty words :toughninja:

Still the question remains: was Pelly assembled at one point in time or was his assembly sequential, ordered, chaotic etc? Thus it may be that it is being suggested that Pelly was created in the past based upon 'designs', concepts, and visualisations drawn from the future = he both was of the future and the past?

Are you arguing at cross purposes?

Young Paw Prints - if you are posing a question both phrasing and '?' [umm - yeah! they're called 'question marks'] are kinda useful to let people know what you are up to ... and there are other words that can be used to indicate suggestions, postulations or theories (bit of a fine line that) - but I am very impressed by how hard and skillfully you have worked to be 'comparatively reasonable' while retaining your essential obstructiveness over the past several pages Just don't burst yourself trying

You're forgetting one important detail...

Pelinal contained the essense of Aka. Pelinal wasn't a time traveller, even though he was from "the future". He WAS time. That means he's future, past, present, and all possibilities in between.

They know Talos was always a god.

Just that the god wasn't always Talos, and that Talos wasn't always Tiber Septim.

edit: I think you'll find that nobody ever explicitly states that Talos came into being when Tiber Septim ascended, only that at that moment the two became one. Just as when the Tribunal ascended they became one with the Tribunal gods, and when Mannimarco ascended he joined the God of Worms who was always there. Old gods, new forms. Talos was always around, he just never blessed Pelinal. He wasn't known to the people of Cyrodill at the time.

The Prophet said that the face of the Divine has changed since then. Pelinal could not kill Umaril before, because he could not follow Umaril into the spirit realm to finish the job, because he did not have the blessing of Talos. Talos's ascension did not change the past, it could only affect that which is to come.


The Prophet stated that Tiber Septim became Talos. Besides, that's one of the fundamental parts of the Imperial religion.

Well, the prophet would know, if he's who I think he is.

Oh yeah.

I probably need to take a break and reread some lore. And from other [censored]. Like my roommate who always talks when I get on here and distracts the hell out of me... :facepalm: <_<