Like I said,
Its already confirmed in the game. I'll have to find the reference, but in a nutshell, dragons will appear if you havn't faced one in a while. And since dragons are unscripted, they can burn/kill what they please. So you better be the hero at some points or risk being labeled something else by the NPCs.

The best solution to this problem would be that Bethesda would not make a 'evil creatures try to destroy the whole world' story in an open world game where you can do what you want when you want. But I guess that's just not 'epic' enough. The whole Oblivion crisis story was a ridiculous joke because of that. 'The world will end, Daedra attack everywhere in Tamriel! You are the only one who can stop them!' 'Meh, I'm currently trying to collect every Nirnroot in Cyrodiil, the Daedra will have to wait.'. A story like that simply doesn't work without time pressure and negative consequences if time runs out. But in an open world game time pressure means forcing the player in a direction, which is not what open world games are about.

The only viable solution to this problem is simply to not make an oh-so-epic (and oh-so-boring) 'world is on the brink of destruction' story. I really hoped Bethesda would have learned from the crappy Oblivion main quest that didn't work at all, but I guess 'epic' dragon attacks were simply too tempting. So I assume that the dragon attacks in Skyrim will be just as ridiculous as the Daedra attacks in Oblivion - there are no consequences if you ignore them and thus the dragons will feel like a minor annoyance and not like a real threat.

I highly doubt any NPCs would call you a coward if you run away from a dragon.

The first few times I encounter one, I certainly plan to do so.

Yes, it is confirmed that if you haven't encountered one in a while, a Dragon will spawn. That is a good thing, this is part of why we are buying this game, to fight some dragons every once in a while and learn some dragon shouts.

While that is part of the main quest, the main quest will include all sorts of sub-quests and various stages, etc. No need to progress any further until you're ready to end the game after a few hundred hours.

I'm not believing anything without a source any more, I've passed on misinformation already because I took what was stated as a fact.

Of course but those things are mostly outside the game world. I'm talking about realism in context. Realism within Nirn. Turn based combat and things like that were usually in a game because of hardware limitations and theres nothing to do about it. Game's rarely use turn based anymore because its not necessary. Behind-the-scenes dice rolls I usually support because that makes the game be about the character's skill and not the players skill. Levels, xp, attributes (if only they were still in) and that are indicators of the character that are outside of the game world. People need something to tell them what their character is like. Kind of a key element of role playing. If the world revolves around the player or if casual bandits need ten arrows in the head to die is not realistic and is within the game world and it breaks immersion. Things like dragons or magic arent realistic in our universe but are in Nirn because they follow Nirn's realism. Theyre realistic within context.

However we don't know if they are locked until a certain point. Like say the forth or third MQ, this is the way i'd prefer.

No way. Penalising the player for doing what he wants?

I know you thought about this for a while OP but I'll be frank. Its a bad idea.

What do you mean by "locked"?

You say "game changer", but I see it's a game breaker.

The Elder Scrolls makes "freedom" a key selling point, specifically, we're told it offers freedom to "do whatever you want." While that's not acually strictly accurate as any game is bound to have limitations as to what you can do, and it would probably be more accurate to say "Do whatever you want, within reason." it does promise certain basic aspects of freedom, these include the freedom to ignore the main quest. In fact, I'd say that's the most important part of "freedom" the series promises, as you can't enjoy the freedom to do other things when the main quest is constantly trying to force you into doing it. In past games, I made many characters that never touched the main quest, there was just so many other things to do, and the main quest really wasn't replayable enough to make it worth playing ten or more times. If you punish the player for not doing the main quest within a certain amount of time, than that's no longer an option, you have to get the main quest finished before you can do anything else, or face the concequences, and I'm not going to play through the main quest with every character I make before I can get to the part I actually want to do, I'll stop playing the game entirely, or see if I can find a mod to fix the mistake of giving the main quest a time limit.

Now, it wouldn't be so bad if a few select quests had a time limit where it would be reasonable, like that part in the main quest of Oblivion with the great gate, but those should be limited to special cases that last only for the duration of a specific quest objective, and usually these are situations where something is happening right now which will lead to disasterous concequences if it's not adressed in time, and you can clearly see that said time limit is not far off.

If Bethesda wants people to stay focused on the main quest, than they should make it so interesting that players won't want to be distracted from it, if the only way to get people to focus on your main story is to punish them for failing to do so, than maybe you should ask yourself if it might possibly because your story isn't actually that good.



Just because dragons aren't scripted doesn't mean there aren't limitations on what they can do, it simply means that there isn't a script telling them to specifically to this or that at a specific time. There's still limits to what they can do, it's just that, amongst the behaviors available to them, you can't be sure which one they'll choose at a given time.

And they can't burn or kill anything that's literally impossible for them to destroy or kill, so they'll only be destroying villages if it's actually possible for them to do so, and while it's been stated that there are a few select structures that can be destroyed during the course of the game, I'm guessing that these are limited to things like the saw mills we can destroy or maybe some minor environmental damage like blowing up cars in Fallout 3, which has little lasting concequences. And I have absolutely no doubt that Bethesda has measures in place to prevent dragons from killing major quest givers, whether these characters are actually unkillable, by the player or dragons (I'm thinking mostly main quest characters here, we know side quest characters may be replaced by their reletives if they die, but I highly doubt that Esbern can die and be replaced by his brother or something.) or they automatically take cover in buildings when a dragon starts attacking and don't come back out until the matter is dealt with. This is the company that decided to make even side quest characters unkillable in Oblivion we're talking about here, I think we can safely say they're not going to design the game to allow major quests to be broken by things the player has absolutely no control over and may not always be able to stop.

And we don't know when dragons start appearing, maybe they're like Obliivion gates in that they only show up if you have completed a certain stage of the main quest, which is what I hope, since if I decide to ignore the main quest entirely I don't want to be constantly reminded of the destiny I decided to have nothing to do with on my current character.

Todd mentioned numerous times that radiant story considers how long it's been since the last time you encountered a dragon:

One of many sources: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:29J0WZBV1BsJ:www.nowgamer.com/features/921564/todd_howard_talks_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim.html+cache:YPmm5029L90J:www.nowgamer.com/print/feature/1316+skyrim+radiant+story+spawning+dragons&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

"The system can time how long it's been since you last saw a dragon, what your level is and whether it’s time to bring one in. There are, obviously, specific ones as well. "

As long as you can still do the same stuff at the end. Then I have no problem with doing the MQ first. I think it would really add to immersion if you were running out of time. Plus its good replay value.

I still don't understand why some people are complaining that encountering dragons is some sort of punishment.

That is part of the fun of playing this game - you don't want to learn any dragon shouts?

If it's variable, I.E certain quests require more urgency whereas some can be relaxed and easy going. Of course as you get further into the main quest the quests should become far more urgent requiring your undivided attention but in the beginning it should be up to the character to say "You know what? I'll go see the Greybeards and see what cooks. This hero of legends gig sounds sweet!" or say "Me? Dragonborn? Are you fricken' nuts! I'm a fighters guild apprentice and saving the world isn't going to put food on my table or keep a roof over my head!" and ultimately decide early on what path in the game they take. In the former case you are stating "Yeah okay I'll go do the MQ." and in the later your saying "Nuh-uh, not going to save the world." which should determine the outcome for the Radiant AI depending on where you are in terms of the main quest.

Perhaps there could be a poll for this?

I think I would prefer it NOT to be in, as compulsory at least, because while I will do main quests in games I like to "faff" a bit first, explore, gain experience, more powerful items etc. But it would be a cool feature, I think I'd prefer it to be implemented as an option.

I liked it in Morrowind that even after you got to Balmora and talked to Caius the first time, he basically said "go get some experience and then come back to me when you're ready". That was cool, I didn't really get a sense of urgency. In Oblivion it's like "Oh woe! The Emperor and all his sons are dead, quick take the Amulet here, quick go find this guy! Waaahh!!!" :violin: Pfft, wimpy Imperials hahaha.

I don't mind a few secondary quests having a time limit on it, but certainly not the main quest, especially when all of Bethesda's games end once you finish the main story! That effectively limits the amount of gametime you have in the game, which I don't think they'd go for; the big draw of these games is "100s and 100s of hours of gameplay!"

I did like the fact that you can kill Caius and you get a note saying the world is doomed but you can continue playing in a "doomed" world if you like.

But I have no idea why anyone is complaining about dragons appearing in the world. If you really don't want to earn any dragon shouts or fight any dragons, just run away every time you see one. What's wrong with that?

Uhm definitely not. I want to do what I want, When I want, How I want. I don't want the game to be a linear pile of crap like Dragon Age 2 was. TES series pride themselves on you choosing your path of doing things, Same with the fallout series. You're not forced to do things in a certain order or encounter penalties for it and that's the way it should be. If I want to dungeon dive for cool weapons and armor for 3 hours and not even touch a main story line then I don't see why the game should give me a smack on the wrist and say 'No!'

That would make the game pointless if there is no sense of major necessity. Its like yeah your just some guy, go do stuff vs. You were a nobody but you can proove yourself + save the world. (I think the 2nd option is a better choice to go with)



The end boss just needs to last long, In Oblivion he comes out and you kill him in like 2 seconds. I hope in Skyrim that the end boss at least does some destruction and really imposes a threat to the land.

It should be in, but not until you have really entrenched yourself in the MQ. And even if you take a lot of time, you should still be able to beat the quest despite permanently losing some towns and cities.

There is absolutely no time limit on Skyrim's main quest.

You will be able to play the game for 2000 hours before completing the MQ if you feel like it.

locked from spawning aka Oblivion gates, they only start appearing until a certain quest starts. At the very least they could keep Dragons really rare up till a certain quest then they spawn at will within a reasonable time frame.

i always make several characters. One or two of them will go for the main quest, the others don't. I really don't want to be forced into it or have it nagging at me as I play.

Thanks for this, I'm hoping more people will follow your example.

For all we know there could be such a quest.

Maybe they don't start spawning until after you visit the Greybeards at the Throat of the World for the first time.

Even if they do start spawning earlier, they are still not flying Oblivion gates. They are intelligent, scary creatures that are part of the game world. You can fight them or run away from them. IMO running away from them at lower levels seems to make more sense from a role-playing perspective. For what kind of believable character would attempt "suicide by Dragon" by fighting a fearsome beast like that before they are ready?