why is it off topic.. we are talking about immersion right? mountains are very important to immersion

Want me to show you?
This was done in light wave 3d
http://generalarrow.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1ogynt

I think I said, terragen but the render output was actually lightwave.

Ok, so let's take a look at the graphics...name me one game that looks as good as those screens and I'll be impressed. Honestly, even those Crysis mods don't look as good as the images on page 49. I don't seem to understand why people are complaining about the graphics, they look phenomenal. It just seems to me that people had set their own expectations to high. I don't see low rez textures, or poor tessellation. I see everything and all things improved. To me, the elder scrolls was always about the immersion as in just walking around in aww of the land scape. I remember back with dagger fall I was shocked with the size and scope of the game. To be honest I was slightly over whelmed and intimidated by such vastness. When they announced Morrowind I was just as excited as I was when they announced Skyrim and Oblivion before it. Morrowind made my jaw drop from the sheer alien aspect of the world. I couldn't help but just look up and around. When Oblivion was released it was the same thing, I couldn't wait to explore every cave nook and cranny to make my character the best character their was. At it's heart The Elder Scrolls has never been about the attributes or for that matter even the Skills. The Skills Add flavor to the world, and some are necessary to do that. I would be fine with out skills as well, they don't add to the game for me. For me, the only thing that matters is pretending that I am the greatest hero or villain that has ever lived. Skyrim's groundbreaking graphics and AI add to that feeling of my self feeling on top of the world. I may start weak, but I shall get stronger. The tougher things I can fight, the more sense of strength I get. The more powerful magic I can cast, the smarter I feel in the game. I don't need a skill to tell me I'm getting better at something so long as I can see my progress visually. That is immersion imo, can I see my progress and effects visually. The skills and attributes are just a template, they don't really add or subtract anything from the elder scrolls series. They just kind of exist. The people who are getting all up in arms about the skills and attributes need to rethink what the Elder Scrolls games have always been about. Now, obviously things are different to other people, but to me it has always about how would I live in this world, and do the visuals and lore add to that. Everything else is just icing on the cake to me.

That looks decent, but I will still maintain that it's not difficult to use terragen and then apply finishing touches to things. But I also think that Skyrim's mountains look fantastic, so I disagree with you that it's super difficult to handcraft a mountain but it does take some talent to make the mountains look attractive. No more than any other sort of landmass creation though. What really comes into making it look good is looking at how mountains are actually formed, then using a heightmap as a base to work off.

Well you actually made my point for me, thanks heeeeheee.

Want me to show you?
This was done in light wave 3d
http://generalarrow.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1ogynt

I think I said, terragen but the render output was actually lightwave.

page 48, i think.

if you don't have the magazine then clearly you're basing this off of Oblivion, in which case i'll just say the mountains in Skyrim look reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally [censored] good dude.

Then I misunderstood you in the first place? I thought you were implying that it was difficult to do, in response to that comment about heightmaps, hence me asking if you'd done it before because it's not difficult. I mean, that's what I would call handcrafting, because no-one is going to model every inch of a mountain individually.

Ok, so let's take a look at the graphics...name me one game that looks as good as those screens and I'll be impressed. Honestly, even those Crysis mods don't look as good as the images on page 49.

I don't seem to understand why people are complaining about the graphics, they look phenomenal. It just seems to me that people had set their own expectations to high. I don't see low rez textures, or poor tessellation. I see everything and all things improved.

Skyrim's groundbreaking graphics and AI add to that feeling of my self feeling on top of the world.

Want me to show you?
This was done in light wave 3d
http://generalarrow.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1ogynt

I think I said, terragen but the render output was actually lightwave.

Don't rationalize it by saying those are 360 screens please, also they look faantastic and I do think they are ground breaking, honestly name me one game that looks this good.

Excellent Point Agent, It's hyper realism combined with an art style, that is ground breaking.

i dont think they are groundbreaking but thats only because those are the only screens we have to go off of, im guessing that those are screens from xbox360.
but its not just skin deep, some of the mechanics of the game sound awesome, like the dynamic snow. and also the handcrafted environment just speaks for how much time they have put into this game. i think they have been working on it a long time and its still not quite finished. we havent seen it all.
so everyone ...shut up :toughninja:

Want me to show you?
This was done in light wave 3d
http://generalarrow.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1ogynt

I think I said, terragen but the render output was actually lightwave.

That's absolutely untrue. Also, there are several recent titles that look quite a bit better. I still don't expect Bethesda to be able to compete with something whose environments are as closed-off as the ones in Metro 2033 or Uncharted 2 and I definitely don't ever expect them to surpass anything Rockstar's done with their games, but those games still all look better than what they've released for Skyrim. That's not a complaint. That's just a statement of fact. Bethesda doesn't have the resources that Naughty Dog had for Uncharted 2 or that Rockstar had for Red Dead Redemption, and they can't afford to handle things the way they were handled in Metro 2033 given the style of game that they're making.


You're not going to be able to tell how they've handled tessellation in the screenshots. You wouldn't be able to tell even if they were using hardware tessellation in them... which they weren't, because those screenshots were apparently from the 360 version of the game. You also aren't going to be able to tell the quality of most of the textures in the game from those shots either (Bethesda's notorious for low-quality environment textures, and that's something we don't get a close enough look at in any of the screens to really say much on).


Nothing about the graphics that we've seen so far is groundbreaking. They don't seem to be using any effects that we haven't seen used in several other games already, and they certainly aren't more detailed than anything out there.


Using Terragen doesn't qualify as "handcrafting" mountains. At all.


Named you three already. Two of them are console games, and there are considerably better-looking games on PC.


Setting aside the fact that the graphics in Skyrim clearly aren't "hyper-realistic"... how would that be ground-breaking? Visuals that try to be extremely realistic/high-fidelity while introducing some additional stylistic flair aren't even remotely rare, and there's literally no ground left to break in that area.

Frankly, I'm fine with enthusiasm and I certainly agree that some people are exaggerating how bad the game looks (really, it looks fine), but acting like absolutely everything they're doing with the visuals in it breaks new ground isn't any better than acting like it doesn't look better than Oblivion. It's a gigantic exaggeration either way.

dude, the one on page 48 is just a concept art....

seriously though, I want mountains to look like this:
http://img337.imageshack.us/i/elderscrollsvshadowsofsfx1.jpg/sr=1

That's absolutely untrue. Also, there are several recent titles that look quite a bit better. I still don't expect Bethesda to be able to compete with something whose environments are as closed-off as the ones in Metro 2033 or Uncharted 2 and I definitely don't ever expect them to surpass anything Rockstar's done with their games, but those games still all look better than what they've released for Skyrim. That's not a complaint. That's just a statement of fact. Bethesda doesn't have the resources that Naughty Dog had for Uncharted 2 or that Rockstar had for Red Dead Redemption, and they can't afford to handle things the way they were handled in Metro 2033 given the style of game that they're making.


You're not going to be able to tell how they've handled tessellation in the screenshots. You wouldn't be able to tell even if they were using hardware tessellation in them... which they weren't, because those screenshots were apparently from the 360 version of the game. You also aren't going to be able to tell the quality of most of the textures in the game from those shots either (Bethesda's notorious for low-quality environment textures, and that's something we don't get a close enough look at in any of the screens to really say much on).


Nothing about the graphics that we've seen so far is groundbreaking. They don't seem to be using any effects that we haven't seen used in several other games already, and they certainly aren't more detailed than anything out there.


Using Terragen doesn't qualify as "handcrafting" mountains. At all.


Named you three already. Two of them are console games, and there are considerably better-looking games on PC.


Setting aside the fact that the graphics in Skyrim clearly aren't "hyper-realistic"... how would that be ground-breaking? Visuals that try to be extremely realistic/high-fidelity while introducing some additional stylistic flair aren't even remotely rare, and there's literally no ground left to break in that area.

Frankly, I'm fine with enthusiasm and I certainly agree that some people are exaggerating how bad the game looks (really, it looks fine), but acting like absolutely everything they're doing with the visuals in it breaks new ground isn't any better than acting like it doesn't look better than Oblivion. It's a gigantic exaggeration either way.

So you really think Uncharted II, RDR and Metro 2033 look better than Skyrim?

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/24025244436004864



two heightmap bumps with a big rock mesh in the middle? (why do people keep posting this picture?)

it's completely possible for them to make craggy cliffs out of heightmaps and a bunch of rock meshes stuck into it. they did it with point lookout and it looked beautiful.

Don't rationalize it by saying those are 360 screens please, also they look faantastic and I do think they are ground breaking, honestly name me one game that looks this good.


Excellent Point Agent, It's hyper realism combined with an art style, that is ground breaking.

Uncharted II? Unsure, because I really haven't seen what it looks like. I don't have a PS3.

RDR? Not really. In some aspects, yes.

Metro 2033? On PCs, HELL YES!!! On consoles? Not so sure.

Graphics- Off hand, I can say that Metro 2033 at max still looks quite a bit better than what I've seen so far of Skyrim. I'll give it this, the graphics are good, but not "next gen" good like Todd was saying. Next gen good is what we're seeing being pumped out by Cryengine 3 and idTech 5, and if you've seen ANY screenshots of content provided by those respective engines, then you'd agree. If you don't, then (and I know it's very bold to say this) you really need to have your eyes checked or something.

You really think Metro 2033 LOOKS better, or are you stating that it has a different art style?

I think we're going to have to wait for better screenshots, and HD gameplay videos to make any real judgements, but so far I agree. idTech 5 does look amazing, that's what Rage is using right?