Seems to me on many boards across the net I hear constant whinning about how F3 isn't really Fallout at all, Van Buren would have been soooo much better.

I've looked at the pics and read enough about VB to not be that impressed by it. I loved the original 2 games, but VB just looked rehashed and dull. As for story elements, I really don't remember playing the first 2 because of their "compelling" story lines. It was the combat system and the atmosphere that really drew me in. After you play the original games enough you don't give a wit about the story, you just love playing and building a character.

F3 lets you have enough customization to make a unique character, and exploring the world is where the real fun is (for me). Plus, a new perspective in the game (being 1st person, I mean) really made it feel fresh and made me fall in love all over again.

No doubt I would have played VB a lot if it was released but maybe Fallout would have died there; three games all the same (more or less) and people would be looking for something new. I think VB would have killed Fallout. Now with all the support behind the new version, no doubt we'll see even more games, 1st person and turn based rpg. What do you guys think, haven't you played a series that just kept giving you more of the same (with a tweek here or there) and got bored with it?

Just want to give props to Beth. for a fantastic job! More FPS RPGS!

I agree with you, and even though I have not played the old games, I'm sure fans would of stopped playing it because you wouldn't have started out in a vault.

:blink: wait you mean by "unique character" 10's in all the SPECIAL stats and 100's across the board? Sure I guess....The stories in the originals was all about how you effect it. In FO3 you barely if at all effect it. Just compare the endings of the originals to the ending of FO3 vanilla and you can see. What do you get good karma/bad karma slides, then FEV slides, then Sacrifice slides. What did you get in the originals? You see slides of each town you effected and how they prospered/fallen. You got to see how your actions effected various important characters you meet. You also see how it all comes together in the near future.

Another example in FO3 the infamous Power of the Atom quest. Basically all you get is where you house is and what your Karma level is. For instance no one in any other town mentions anything about it. No one cares really. It's like that with the majority of quests they are all self contained.

VB had lots of good Ideas from what I've read. Also Critic, you didn't start in the Vult in FO2 it might actually be smart to know what your talking about.....

OP, you couldn't come off more bias if you tried.

Saying that VB was a planned rehash doesn't make it so. The design docs say a great deal otherwise.

Now look at Bethesdas take on Fallout 3:
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Now, it's not very fair to judge an unfinshed game by comparing it to finished and shipped ones, is it?


In F2 you're not from a vault, and in fact you're a tribal, of all things. So no, that wouldn't had been a big problem.

If anything, Fallout 3 is nothing more than a bad knockoff of Fallout's 1 and 2. Honestly, if you want to talk about the game that killed the Fallout series, you need only look as far as Fallout 3.

well... we can't really consider The BoS being just something thrown in like the rest... as well as the Enclave operating there, having a president, or even just the name. um the social experiment thing... well that was the whole reason the lone wanderer escaped. the year, i'm sure, has nothing to do with the story other than maybe being a tip to Fallout 1. Being exiled... isn't quite the beginning or the end, now is it? just in the middle. i'm pretty sure that wasn't a steal. the Super Mutants are not an army, just a force. oh and finally, it's not the water purification system that is tampered with. it's the air filtration, and that's to evacuate everyone, not kill them.

the Rivet City and Outcast parts i'll give you.

Dude he's not talking about the exile is the "end" of FO3. He's talking about it being the end of FO1 that was reused for the 101 plot. wait you call the Super mutants a "force" that has been fighting and winning against the BoS for over 20 years not an army? Air, water same difference plot wise you tamper with machines that make them leave.

I understand he's not saying it's the end of FO3. in fact, it is stated right there. in my post. see it? yeah hopefully you see it. what i was saying was that in fallout 3, it wasn't use to build up or tear down anything. being exiled was only an OPTIONAL (notice the root, option, meaning it's not required) quest that was taken. it does nothing more than maybe make you a little sad.

Yes, the super mutants are just a force. an army is unified for their beliefs. they fight together and are organized. i use the term lightly, but there is always organization in an army. Super mutants are just rag-tag humanoids in random parts of the DC ruins and capital wasteland. i could gather 100 friends and have them all beat up people in my city with baseball bats and then outpost at parts of the city, but we wouldn't be an army.

Yes, it was such a petty thing to make a difference between water and air. however, i'd like you to come up with a legitimate reason that would make everyone have to escape if the overseer won't let anyone out for any reason other than water or air filtration.

I see your point, but your father(or mother) was from a vault.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2

They are organized apparently. The BoS have stated numerous time they are in the DC ruins looking for "something". they have organized camp around the wasteland guarding and collecting captives and loot. They are out recruiting the Brotherhood so they much have some form of organized "recruitment" plan. they've also been doing this for a long time. I'd call that an army.

it does end the 101 plot line and follows the FO1 version fairly closely IIRC (Cut down yes but basically similar things happen. Close enough that you can recognize it right away.)

Edit: Critic, you are just called his "ancestor" and IIRC about 80 years passed so it's possible I guess depending on how old you set for yourself. So that a yes and no...

No need to be patronising. whilst it was optional, it's a quest that is triggered after a certain part of the main quest story-line. It is also apart of a culmination of V101 - V13 references, and they're all very noticably rehashed ideas from previous games. Along with everything else I mentioned. Those aren't my opinions, they're factual observations. Choose to deny them as you see fit.

You're arguing semantics. Force, army, call them what you like, they're a growing, active, and organised concentration of mutants with an objective and motivation to that end. It's all too familiar of the Master's Army.

The overthrowing of the Overseer is yet another reference to the originals. I may aswell add that to the list.

The Chosen One is the grandchild of the original Vault Dweller. There are references to this ingame, based on your character's dialogue. One of these instances is dialogue with Lenny in Gecko. It also makes chronological sense.

No.

But I did get pretty ticked off with Homeworld 2 because they removed the ability to control ships individually.

It's puzzling why some insist on comparing an actually made game like FO3 with an unmade game like VB. VB might have had good ideas, but these mean nothing if one can't experience how these ideas are implemented in the game itself.

Right, because before Bethesda resurrected the franchise and made it into a highly profitable, million selling venture for the modern audience - Fallout was doing brilliantly.

Here: Let me show you how to do it, Chris says.

Fact is, this entire argument comes down to bias, and after a couple years of it, jsut about everything worthwhile as been hashed over many times. It's not enough that different people ahve different opinions. Some folks are so hurt and devistated by all of this that they just need to keep rubbing our faces in their abject grief.

Thought topics to complain about "complainers" was a no no

Anywho, like others have said, it's hardly fair to compare, what, an alpha demo against a finished product? Personally, having tried the tech demo, I thought it was looking pretty damn sharp for such an early build. But it's biggest strength would have been its storyline and writing.

Facts are there, like it or not.

I thought so too. But I guess my right to complain makes me a valid target of 'abject grief' by other members of the forum, and thus it got moved here, instead of getting closed

Hey, to each their own. "Some people juggle geese," after all.

Pot, kettle, etc.

You are the Poster Child for FO3-hate.


Saying that VB wasn't planned to be a rehash, doesn't make it not so.

Granted, I wouldn't say it WOULD have been ... but it woudl clearly have stayed very very close to the proven formula for the setting. Just like FO3 does, in fact.


The difference being, Vault 13 is very nearly a Control Vault - it IS scheduled to open after 200 years. Vault 101 is scheduled to NEVER open.


... since the entire POINT of the Enclave is that it is the continuation of the pre-war American Government, whoever is in charge of the Enclave will be called President, period.


All that your list proves is ... FO3 does not deviate far from the Fallout formula.

The screenshots you saw were from an early pre-alpha tech demo that was not indicative of how the finished game would look like.

And in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Van_Buren_would_never_haven_been_as_great_as_Fallout3, you admitted that the only thing about the story you read was the brief plot summary at The Vault, which doesn't do it justice. You should at least download some of the design documents and read some bits of them to appreciate it. The story, quests and characters were much more interesting than all the blandness and rehash of FO1/FO2/FOT/FOBOS in Bethesda's Fallout 3. I'd rank Van Buren below FO1 in terms of story, and above FO2 and FO3.



Fallout 3 is not turn-based in any way.



It's only visual customization, with zero effect on gameplay, which for me is meaningless. It's not customization if your character will most likely finish the game (especially with Broken Steel) maxed out.

Ahem, I am not even close to being the epitome of FO3 haters. Even if I was, you'd do well to accept facts, and respect opinions, no matter what you believe my disposition to be.

FO3 doesn't stay close to the proven formula, I shall reiterate that facts hold water over bias.

200 years, never. Regardless, V101 opens 200 years after its closure. Pot, kettle, etc.

Eden was a culmination of presidents, which is more to the point.

What my list proves is, FO3's story is a complete rehash of both the originals and tactics combined, which goes without saying, just read it and see. Content isn't the formula fella, the concept, gameplay, ruleset and writing all contribute to a strong formula, or method, or whatever you like to call it. Everything else sets the scene. Fallout could not deviate further from its root concepts, whilst at the same time showing no originality in its story.

But I guess because I don't like FO3 the facts prove nothing. That sounds about right from an illogical and blundersome point of view. (blundersome should be in the dictionary).

Don't forget about stuff lifted from FOBOS.

If I could bring myself to play it over the constant bashing, I might find a gem or two to compare

"F3 lets you have enough customization to make a unique character"
Yep, sure does, one that is so unique that he/she only need STR>AGI>INT>END because the rest of the stats are useless, as everything can be killed with small guns, perp and luck affect jack, and chrisma is a joke.
Such a unique one that he can pretty much max each of the skills.


quoted
It's possible to gain 100 points for all skills in Fallout 3, by retrieving all the respective Vault-Tec Bobbleheads and skill books. Your best bet is to acquire the Comprehension perk, which enables you to gain 2 skill points per book instead of 1. With this in mind there are a total of 25 books for each skill, except for Barter (Tales of a Junktown Jerky Vendor)which only has 24 meaning you can acquire 50 points per skill (48 for Barter) from reading skill books alone. Couple this with the fact each Vault-Tec Bobblehead you find adds 10 points to its respective skill, most of the work is already done.

Bear in mind you start the game with each skill at 15, and after taking the exam 3 certain skills are tagged based upon your answers (meaning they have an extra 15 points, but you can change the results according to your preferences). So, combining the Vault-Tec Bobbleheads, books, and your starting skill points, most of your skill categories should be up to 75 with tagged skills standing at an impressive 90. All that's left to do is level up and distribute your skill points evenly based on whats tagged or not. If you have kept your Intelligence at 5,that's 15 points per level up meaning you can gain a whopping 285 points to round all those skills up to 100.
ended


As far as I know, you can come no where near that in FO 1/2, mainly because you can go to 200 ( 300 in fallout 2 ) and there are almost twice as many skills.


"exploring the world is where the real fun is "

Yeah maybe the first time, as its the same every time with no RE, only 2 ways to deal with each quest, you got maybe twon runs through the game untill it becomes stale, at least the mods change this.

"Seems to me on many boards across the net I hear constant whinning about how F3 isn't really Fallout at all, Van Buren would have been soooo much better. "

Well because to me it is not fallout 3, it should be fallout DC or some such.
Here is why.

1) the S.P.E.C.I.A.L is gutted
2) only STR.END>AGI>INT are needed.
3) you can max every skill
4) the lack or random encounters when fast travling.
5) Small guns trumph all guns
6) you can sneak attack crit every thing in the game, and even SMB are cake.
7) Bug guns svck
8) energy guns are ok, but small weapons are better.
9) 90% of the NPCs are bland
10) Lack of face/body movment in dialog
11) doing quests one way or the other, has no effect on any other town/person
12) quests are short and lack back ground
13) fallout 3 ignores cannon
14) should have been a spin off, so a rightfull sequal can take the #3 spot.
15) fallout 3 is behind the witcher in almost every way, and its a older game from atari!



"No doubt I would have played VB a lot if it was released but maybe Fallout would have died there"

And if it did die there, it would have been better off then it is now, at least that is what I think.


"three games all the same (more or less) and people would be looking for something new."
No, they want to be spoon fead the quests and feel like tey are the best ever, take for example morrowind to oblvion, what a shame, completely changed and it holds your hand %100 all the way.


"What do you guys think, haven't you played a series that just kept giving you more of the same (with a tweek here or there) and got bored with it?"

Lest see, nope
1) command and conquer
2) Dawn of war series untill DOW2
3) NwN and its plethora of EXP packs.
4)NFS, while lacking in content they are mostly the same since underground.
5) Mech warrior 1-4

Well thats what I think, these RPG games now days are less RPGs than ever, less choises, less dialog and more shiny.
The last few games that have come out that have been what I call a true RPG would be
1) NWN-2
2) The witcher
3) Mass effect ( but it is border line )
4) Morrowind

thats it, that I can think of, the state of RPGs is getting very, very sad. Hopefully dragon age will be good.