Three years ago, I had an Xbox 360.

I did a TON of research and planning, and I ultimately decided to build a 40th level Wood Elf who was a master archer/alchemist.

I worked my ass off and I built the character on a 360.


Here I am three years later. I no longer own an Xbox 360. I now own a PlayStation 3.

I've also totally forgotten how I built my "Perfect 40" elf.


I don't suppose anyone out there has this archetype laying around? If so, I'd like to ask for your help so that I can reconstruct my elf for the PS3 version of the game. To complicate things, I remember absolutely NOTHING about how I built him in the first place. I don't recall which skills I built in which order, why I did it that way, what the specific tasks were, or what the specific functions of each of those tasks was... so this will be quite a project.

Might I impose on someone to help an old elf out?

What exactly do you mean by "perfect 40"?

I only build characters that have plenty of imperfections. Perfect is easy and boring. :tongue:

I can only build perfect sociopaths.

I mean that he (or was it a she? I think it was a he) had maximized his attributes in the areas I wanted and could not level any more, thereby granting the greatest mathematical advantage possible to my character versus NPCs or monsters.

The areas I wanted were:

Archery
Stealth
Alchemy
Armor (I THINK it was light armor, but it may have been heavy armor too).
Sword (one-handed).

And umm... I think that pretty much covers it. I had zero emphasis on magic except as a way to gain skill points (restoration I seem to recall. I seem to recall something about a light spell as well).

He was level 40, and it wasn't possible for him to level up ever again.




No thanks. That's too much like my real life. I don't need to build an imperfect fictional character. I already have a real one.

Te way Oblivion's level scaling works you'd get the greatest mathematical advantage if you stayed level 1 forever and had Marksman, Sneak and Alchemy as a minor skills.

here is my reconstruction of the crime scene:

Majors:
Blade
Marksman
Restoration
Heavy/Light Armor
Illusion
Block
Conjuration

Really, by level 40, almost any build should get you to 100 in these skills. Just choose what you want and have at it.

Exactly. Your "greatest mathematical advantage" would be all skills at 100 and level 1 forever. You wouldn't get any more points to attributes than what you have to start with, but you'd still have a larger advantage vs. your opponents due to the level scaling. :shrug:

And any character will come to the point that they can't level up anymore, if played enough. Once all your ten major skills are at 100, you stop leveling up.

A slight correction. The greatest mathematical advantage would be when you have all your MINOR skills at 100 and level 1 forever. You can't be level 1 if your major skills are 100.

Anyway, skills in this game are much more important than attributes. At 0 Strength you get -25% to damage and at 100 Strength you get +25% to damage. But at 0 Blade/Blunt skill you get -80% to damage and at 100 Blade/Blunt you get +70% to damage.

You can, if you never sleep.

Right, forgot about that. But never sleeping is too much of a bother to me. It also blocks you from several quests and an entire questline (DB).

It's an interesting conversation we have here.

All the same, I don't think I could count on never using any of my other skills ever. I like to experiment.

I know that somewhere on this board there's a 40th level wood elf that couldn't level any more even if I tried and who was good in all the areas of the game that I was interested in.

Even if I had continued to level all other skills to 100, he would have never leveled again.

I know that archetype is present somewhere on this board, because I made it - and I posted it, on this board. I did it three years ago though, and apparently that exceeds the search range for the boards.



Okay, how would we make that happen? I need a bit of hand-holding here. I was once very good at this, but that was three years ago.

The highest level you can get is what ..... 49? 100 max skill - 30 base skill (no racial modifiers) = 70 skill /10 (10 points to make a level) = 7 levels per skill x 7 skills = 49* (this assumes you do not exploit skill reductions due to incarceration)

if you had a racial bonus of 10 in every major skill you would cap out at 42 levels.... 100 max skil - 40 base skill (30 base + 10 racial) = 60 skill /10 = 6 x 7 = 42 tada!

It is impossible to hit the level 40 minimum because no race has +10 in 7 skills. Wood elves only have 3 10's (alchemy, marksman, and sneak) and 3 5's (acrobatics, alteration, light armor). 3 x 10 = 30, 3 x 5 = 15, 30 + 15 = 45, 45/10 = 4.5. If you level luck to 100 that is 5 to ALL skills which reduces your level cap by another 3.5 (7skills x 5 points each). Comes out to level 41 (49 hard cap - 8 from racials and luck) as a maximum if you take those majors

The only way to do cap out at 40 is to take the skills you use as minors then control your leveling progress via skills you will never use. You can use Blunt or HrH to level STR, Heavy armor or Armorer to level CON, acrobatics to level speed to supplement any deficiencies in stats after the skills you want are capped. That about sums it up. Oh I forgot that you can shave off another 3.5 levels if you only take your skills 99 when you are at 99 luck... so when you level the next time you will hit 100 in those skills the extra 50 luck will add 5 to EVERY skill.

I think that about sums it up?

I didn't run the numbers, but remember that all major skills that fit within your specialization gain a 5 point starting bonus as well. A Bosmeri marksman who specializes in stealth starts with marksman at 40 for example.

Marksman:
Major skill: 25
Bosmer: +10
Stealth: +5

I'm not trying to debate whether one can max a character at 40 because I'm not interested in that, just providing a consideration for those who want to fiddle with the numbers.

Nicely done. And yes, I do seem to recall taking all of my skills that I used often as minor skills for the most-part. It's pretty fuzzy though - three years ago and I only played for about a month. Quite possibly this was due to burn-out as a result of the number crunching, so I'm not sure why I'm doing this again.

You seem to be very good with the numbers, so here's where I am really concerned I'll be imposing far too much.

I would like it if the steps I need to take to produce this result were laid out for me in terms that are easy to understand and such that I can explain them to my girlfriend and she can help me out without it ending in a massive mistake.

Can you help me with that?


Also, this part:



Can you explain that more to me, please? The stats don't gain an actual 5 point bonus to them do they? It's a bonus applied in the hidden formulas as a result of a high luck, right? The stat sheet doesn't actually reflect a "105" in Marksmanship for example, right?

Right now i'm not at my pc... but today I will help you with that!

You star tat level 1 so increasing 7 majors by 70 points would bring you to level 50. Secondly, the base value of major skills is 25, not 30. Only major skills from your specialization start at 30 (if you have no racial bonus). You could create such a character if for example you played a Breton with a custom class that is specialized in Magic but has combat and stealth skills as majors.

So the natural maximum is actually 1 + (7 * 75)/10 = 53.


Calculating the minimum is a bit trickier. Based on skills it's 45 (you'd get that for example if you played a Breton Mage or an Orc Warrior), but you can also stop leveling when all your attributes reach 100. In fact that's the hard cap at which you stop leveling alltogether, even if you didn't max out all major skills yet.

If all your attributes are 100 then the sum of all your attributes is 800. Not counting birthsign bonuses characters start with a sum of 330. The slowest increasing attribute is Luck because it only ever increases by 1 point. If you have a custom class that has Luck as afavored attribute and you also pick the Thief birthsign you will start with 65 Luck. It will then take you 35 levels to max out your Luck.

In addition to increasing your Luck by 10 points the Thief birthsign also increasses Agility and Speed by 10 points so you start with a sum of 360. Assuming you get x5 multipliers for the other two attributes that you increase you will be gaining 11 attribute points per level. Over 35 levels that would be 385 attribute points. 360 + 385 = 745. So at level 36 you would still be 55 points short of maxing all attributes. If you then get x5 multipliers for 3 attributes you're gaining 15 attribute points per level and it would take you 4 levels to max out your attributes completely (for the last level you'd only have to get x5 multipliers for two attributes, but that's nitpicking). 36 + 4 = 40.

So there you have it, perfect 40.

The recipe seems to be:
- make a custom class with Luck as a favored attribute (I'd suggest Endurance as the other favored attribute)
- pick the Thief birthsign
- get x5 multipliers all the time

You get a x5 multiplier if you increase 10 skills governed by that attribute each level. I would suggest that you maximize Agility and Endurance first. Endurance should be maximized early to give you the highest possible amount of Health and Agiltiy should be maximized quickly because it's important for your archery and because you can do so very quickly. As Wood Elf with the Thief brithsign you'd start with 60 Agility so you could maximize it in 8 levels. That would then give you the freedom to use Agility skills without messing up your numbers.

Once you've maxed your Agility it would probably be best to train Intelligence by working on your Alchemy skill. Not only is a high Alchemy skill useful to an archer because of poisons, Alchemy is also a fantastic moneymaker skill that you can use to finance your training at various trainers.

The trickiest attribute to control is probably Speed because you will gain skill increases in Athletics simply by moving around. Luckily though you will start with 60 Speed so you only need 80 increases in Speed skills to max your Luck. This means you can afford to waste the SPeed multipliers that you'll get from the early increases in Athletics and Acrobatics. You can get all the increases in Speed you need from Light Armor alone if you keep it as a minor skill (as a Wood Elf with Stealth specialization you'd start with exactly 20 in Light Armor).

Personality can be maxed with the easily controlled Speechcraft and Illusion. You will need 120 skill increases spread between these two so you don't have to worry about any increases you get in Mercantile. You can also afford to use both Illusion and Speechcraft occasionally without messing up your charcter.

Putting it all together I'd suggest a classs that would look something like this:

Specialization: Combat
Favored attributes: Endurance and Luck
Major skills:
1. Marksman (AGI)
2. Security (AGI)
3. Alteration (WIL)
4. Restoration (WIL)
5. Alchemy (INT)
6. Mysticism (INT)
7. Speechcraft (PER)

You will spend the first 8 levels using only Marksman and Security from among all your majors. Each level you will buy 5 points of training in Armorer and get 5 points in Block and Heavy Armor by visiting the "Slaughterfish Academy".

Slaughterfish Academy means you put on some heavy armor, take a shield, and go to Lake rumare (or some other place where slaugterfish live). Then you stand in the water and you let a Slaughterfish attack you. You block the attacks until your health becomes kind of low at which point you run out of the water (so the combat stops) and wait for 1 hour to heal your health. Then you go back into the water and repeat the excercise until you get 5 increases in Block and/or Heavy Armor.

Note: by 5 increases in Heavy Armor and Block I mean that both of them together should icnrease by 5 points. For example you could get 3 increases in Block and 2 in Heavy Armor. You'll also want to do the Slaughterfish Academy and Armorer training before getting the icnreases in Agility skills.

At level 9 you will have 100 Agility and 85 Endurance. Keep training in Armorer and visiting the Slauhgterfish Academy for the next 3 levels. In addition to leveling with Marksman and Security you now also start leveling from Alchemy. To get a x5 multiplier in intelligence you'll also have to train some minor skills that govern Intelligence. For each point of Marksman and Security you gain, you should also get a point in Conjuration. Don't use Mysticism at this point.

For example let's say that during level 11 you got 2 points in Marksman, 2 points in Security, and 6 points in Alchemy. You will now have to increase Conjuration by 4 points in order to get a x5 multiplier for Intellgience. Note also that you'll have to get those points in Conjuration before you get the last point in Alchemy. That's because once you have enough skill increases for a level up any further skill increases will count for the NEXT level up.

If you play a male wood Elf you'll have 100 Endurance at level 12. With a female it takes 2 levels longer. You are now free to use Endurance skills (Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor) as much or as little as you want. By now the equipment you find will start becoming rather heavy so this would be a good time to start training Strength. Buy 5 points of training in Blunt and then train Blade by killing Mudcrabs with an Iron Dagger.

At level 21 you will max out the skills Marksman, Security, and Alchemy as well as the attributes Agility, Endurance, and Intellgience. Now comes the tricky part. You will want to balance your Willpower, Personality, and Speed atributes. It also differs a bit for males and females.

If you are male you have 75 Strength at level 21 and spend levels 22-27 increasing Willpower and Personality . Easiest way to do it is to get buy 5 points of training in Mercantile and grind Illusion 5 points followed by 10 increases in Alteration and Restoration. If you are female you have 65 Strength at level 21, but your Personality is already 40 so at levels 22 and 23 you get a x5 multiplier for Strength instead of getting one for Personality.

So now you are level 27. You have 75 Strength, 60 Willpower, 60 Speed, 60 Personality, and 91 Luck. Your Alteration skill is probably around 80-90, but Speechcraft and Mysticism are still 25. So you mainly use those two to level up further. I suggest increasing Strength to 100 and Speed to 85 over the course of the next 5 levels (28-32, get the levels from Mysticism). Then spend levels 33-36 increasing Willpower and Personality (get the levels from Alteration, Restoration, and Speechcraft).

So now you're level 36 with 85 Speed, 80 Willpower and Personality, and 100 in all other attributes. You then spend the last 4 levels increasing Speed, Willpower, and Personality.

Voila, perfect 40!



That is incorrect. First the Luck bonus is equal to 40% of your Luck over 50. So with 100 Luck the bonus is 20 (40% of 50). Secondly, the Luck bonus works as a hidden bonus, it doesn't actually increase your skills. If you have 100 Luck and 5 Blade skill your sword attacks will do the same damage as if you had 50 Luck and 25 Blade skill, but your actual skill will still be only 5.

lol Dragatus your post looks like a rocket science essay You must have really good grades at school buddy xD

Dragatus, you are amazing.

I still have a few specific questions, but I actually understood almost all of that and I believe I can get that worked out.

Oddly, I knew exactly what "Slaughterfish Academy" was as soon as you said it, and it's brilliant. I've never done that before, but that does seem to be a great way to completely control the combat. That's perfect!


Okay, let me look at this when I have my eyes more open (I just woke up), but this appears to be pretty much what I must have done last time. It seems very familiar at least. That said, I will have more specific questions as I think this through, I'm sure.

Simply amazing. Thank you very much!

Wow, dude, I think you're a genius. :blink:

Okay, so let's go step by step here.

Let's start at level 1.

Let's say I come out of the sewer with nothing but my iron bow, some arrows and a mortar and pestle.

I will do the following things in the following order:

1. I will buy/earn/attain a total of 5 skill levels in Armorer.

2. I will attain a total of 5 skill levels in Block or Heavy Armor - or any combination of the two.

3. I will then get 5 levels of Marksman.

4. I will then get 5 levels of Security.

5. Along the way, I will do my best to minimize any additional skill increases - ESPECIALLY from my major skills.

It will then be time to level up, and I will do so. I will put my points in Luck, Endurance and Agility.

6. I will then move on to level 2, which will be identical to level 1. In fact, this is what I will do each level until I complete my training at the end of my 8th level.


Is this a correct battle plan for level 1 through 8?

Actually I don't because I spend too much time on video games when I should instead be working on my thesis.



That's not really a work of genius. It's just knowing the game mechanics and thinking it through. I'd also never actually go through all that myself, I much prefer to play more or less naturally.



More or less.

Points 1 and 2 could actually be combined into "get 10 increases in Endurance skills". I just said train Armorer 5 times because you can't directly train it in the Slaughterfish Academy and because is the one that will actually be most useful from among the 3 (even sneaky archers need to repair their gear sometimes and you need 50 Armorer before you can repair magic items). It's also perfectly fine to get 10 increase from Block and Heavy Armor.

It's also not necessary to get exactly 5 increases in both Marksman and Security. You could just as well get 8 increases in Marksman and 2 in Security. Both are governed by Agility so you get the same x5 multiplier for Agiltiy as long as the combined number of increases is 10 (which will then also level you up). You can also safely use Sneak as much as you want. Normally it might be a bit of a waste to do so, but you start with 60 Agility so it's not a problem.

In regard to point 5 you should try to completely prevent increases in any other major skills. Which should be easy enough to achieve. Just avoid spellcasting, don't make any potions (you can still drink potions you find or buy without any problems), and use bribes or Charm scrolls instead of using the Persuasion minigame. Also avoid reading skill books. There is one tricky part here and that is having both Security and Alteration as major skills. It may lead to a situation where you can't open a lock without getting an unwanted skill increase.

However, if you visit the Tower Stone and activate it at night you'll get a Greater Power that opens Hard locks once per day. Powers don't train skills so you can then use that to open any locks that would otherwise net you an unwanted skill increase. And afetr you use it you can then just wait 24 hours to refresh it. That should get you past 99% of the locks in the game.

You'll want to keep minor skill increases to a minimum, but in this case you don't need to worry by an ocasional increase here or there.

Point 6 is accurate.

A little warning: be careful which skills you use during the tutorial. Specifically make sure you don't increase any of your major skills. Easiest way to do so would be to play through the tutorial like a warrior. That way you'd only get increases in Blade/Blunt, Block, Heavy Armor, and Athletics. Increases in Block and Heavy Armor would actually be welcome because you'd then have to spend less time in the Slaughterfish Academy.

Edit: To sum up:

0. Play through the tutorial like a warrior.

1. Get 10 increases in Endurance skills.

2. Level up by using Marksman and Security. Feel free to also use sneak as much as you want.

3. Completely avoid using the other 5 major skills. Minimise increases in minor skills (but don't worry if you get a few).

3.1 Visit the Tower Stone to get the Open Hard Lock greater power.

4. After you level up repeat steps 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Thank you very much, Daragatus. I'll begin working on him immediately I think.


One last shot...

I see that female Bosmers (wood elves) get 30 endurance base and 40 personality base. Males get the opposite.

Because of how endurance works, I'm better off with a male, right?

A male would en up having 11 or 12 more Health than a female, which at level 40 will be something like 2% of your total Health. Personally I'd rather pick gender based on aesthetics but it's your call.

Doh... I forgot that Oblivion has attribute caps....

Almost all of the RPG's I play nowadays have no hard attribute caps.

I really hope skyrim does not have skill or attribute caps. Just make it really really really hard to gain more at a certain point.