Here I made this post better.

If the Barnaky ending is canon, the MWBoS is a deadly threat to the Legion. Eddie would have a big problem with the MWBoS, they are even more ruthless than he is...if he sends Inculta out to do his little terror tactics they'll just up the ante.

Particularly if they still have access to the pacification drones. That collossus would slaughter some thousand Legionaries before they could bring it down.

"Legion is all about 'the greater good', maybe losing the east is a necessary loss for the Legion to grow.
They can always return in a decade or two and take it again, I hardly think that a nation will have been able to form during their absence.
Only reason they're losing so many troops is because two super powers are fighting each other.
So say they take the west, then there is no more super power, only randomly scattered raider tribes and towns that they can roll over."
- Gabriel, just a few posts ago.


2. Then why bring up transportation at all if I can't say that NCR doesn't have any either?
3. Doesn't mean that they aren't educated in other areas, and the priestesses are lore from Van Buren IIRC which shouldn't really be there on the wiki, or it should at least be in "Van Buren" tags.
4. I've seen a couple of HAM radios at some Legion outposts and camps. I think there's one in Cottonwood Cove HQ.
5. What are they suppose to create?

2.You're missing the point. I'm saying that the Legion lacks a proper means of transport, something that is vital in securing an empire that would stretch from New Vegas to New Mexico. I don't give a damn what the NCR has, they're not what this dicussion is about. Your argument is Straw Man. You're attacking another faction to make the Legion look better, but the reality is that the Legion lacks a form of trasportation that could allow them to have a sizable empire and keep it stable.
3. You're ignoring the fact that Cesar and his generals misinform their soldiers in order to garner loyalty.
4. A couple of radios isn't much, but I guess it's proof that they're willing to use some kind of comunication. What we do know is that they don't use it in combat, and we never hear about Ceasar getting any reports from flagstaff, though that's not proof that he doesn't comunicate with his capital.
5. They should create new technologies. If they built a bridge across the Colorado, they would be able to flood the Mojave. They have a howitzer, if they had any means of production beyond some blacksmiths they would be able to build more, and shell the piss out of New Vegas.

Lets try to look at it this way.

Scenario: The Legion under Caesar take the Mojave. No one left in the Mojave to oppose him. How would he then go about conquering the whole of NCR? Remember NCR is huge in size and in population. NCR recruit men and women were the Legion only take men mostly trained from birth.

Other things to remember:

NCR's greatest defence are the Sierra Nevada mountain range as well as others. The Legion will have to cross them and such a thing would be akin to Hannibal Crosses the Alps. Now I know many think that was a great military victory for Hannibal but he lost alot of men and animals crossing it and he did not have any Roman Armies attacking him every step of the way. Any men he lost were replaced by Tribes. Caesar will have no such luck. NCR will be there to attack him. No tribes to join Caesar's fight and no one dumb enough in NCR side with him.

NCR makes use of propaganda and "The Barbarian Horde at the Gates" will get the people of NCR ready to fight the Legion.

NCR is more technologically advanced then the Legion in every way. They have rail roads, manufacturing centers, possible captured Enclave tech and BoS tech. Possible they are close with the Shi. NCR used to have energy weapons but the Gun Runners stopped making them. Van Grafts end up selling out to NCR so NCR will once again get them. NCR has Vertibirds, they have one, it would be stupid to think they don't have others. NCR would make use of howitzers as seen in Fallout 2.

We already know it would take every last man in Caesar's Empire to take NCR.

So how would Caesar do it? How long would it take? Could he do it before he dies or NCR counter attacks with everything they have?

Legion lacks brahmin and wagons?

3. About NCR and lie to them that Caesar is a god? Yeah, I know that, not ignoring it, but they can still be educated in "other ways".
5. Maybe they don't have the blueprints for crafting one and don't have the necessary equipment and resources to reverse engineer it. A lot of people are relying on old world stuff for production, no one really creates anything new at all, they just copy old stuff. As to building a bridge, they could do that, and the NCR could send it's rangers to gun them down as it'd be a high priority target.

The Rocky Mountains don't go through California, Nevada or Arizona. Not sure what you mean by this.

The only use Eddie has for the Dam is to use it as a footbridge for his troops...it's the only bridge across the Colorado..but holding it will cripple the NCR's economy once Eddie orders the power to the NCR shut off. No doubt water deliveries would end as well. Or Eddie could continue to sell to them at extortionate rates to bankrupt thier economy and force the NCR to supply the means with which to destroy it. And imagine how much hate and discontent Eddie could create in the NCR if he forced the NCR to pay him tribute in slaves for the privilege of having electricity from the Dam?

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BRAHMINS?!?!? What are you talking about? :ahhh: <- :rofl:

Posted Today, 07:07 PM by kdn003

"I guess this would come down to how stable the region to the east is. There'd Dog City and the Modwest Brotherhood of Steel waiting for the Legion. I'm not sure how much of a threat either of those are to the Legion. at the same time, if they managed to secure their position by having an ocean at their backs they could expand with greater ease. In the end what would matter would be things like transportation and communication, both of which are greatly benefitted by technology, radios, automated transport, etc. If Ceasar is sitting pretty in his new Rome and there's a rebellion out in Flagstaff he won't know about it for days, then it will take even longer to get an army there. Same would go for a Brotherhood incursion."

Damn you are right :facepalm: I was thinking of Northern Califoria. Mountains would cut off people coming from the East.

Still there are mountain ranges such as the Sierra Nevada may not be as big as the Rockies but they would still be a barrier. Which is mentioned in Honest Hearts as to why NCR can't get troops into the Mojave. They have to go around the Divide and around the mountains.

I didn't read that post, sorry.

And yeah I don't see them having much chance against MWBOS even if they could teleport their entire army to them in a flash.
I thought you talked about transport for trade, production and soldiers for their current area and west coast.
Still, just cause we don't know if they have contact with Flagstaff doesn't mean that they "don't" have contact with flagstaff.
They do have radios, so maybe they relay a message from station to station until it finally receives Caesar's location.
Sure it won't be as quick as a direct transmission, might take a day or two but he'd hear about it fast enough to take action and send out new orders for the stations to relay forward.
That is just speculation though, but that they "don't" have communication is also speculation as far as I know. (Unless there's something I've missed and if so feel free to inform me)

Yeah sorry. I had one of these moments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhU-5M-VR0s 00:33

Gab really...
I dont know how you can still see Legion getting benefits of conquering Hoover dam and then possibly moving on. If they capture that they will fall shortly.

What happens happens, but Legion needs that synthesis to change into something better.
If not then they might just become what some of the anti-Legion bias thinks of them: "A large slave-using raider tribe".
They might, under the wrong leadership, turn into the Crimson Legs.
I don't want that to happen.
By taking the Mojave they will lose the east and will have to move forth until the west is conquered and they can rebuild their strength and then go back and take the east from pesky raider tribes once again.
It's a necessary sacrifice for the Legion's required change in structure and leadership.
That's how they benefit from taking it. (imo)

Maybe but Caesar seems hell bent on taking all of NCR. If they some how do become "better" they better do it before Caesar dies or NCR comes back and next time it will be personal :gun:

Implying the Legion is a threat to the NCR at all. The forces in the Mojave are an expeditionary force of green troops and a few veteran units on the long end of a thin supply line. If Caesar thinks his pathetic little Rome imitation has a snowballs chance in hell against the might of the NCR, he's even more delusional than he's portrayed as being already.

Um...is that why not a single regular NCR trooper can defeat a Legionary in combat? Is that why the only two military entities that even stand a chance against the Legion are the Rangers and Heavy Armored Troopers? Is that why the Legion has vast spy networks in various bases of the NCR? Is that why the Legion has the same, if not more land as NCR?

And my largest point. Kimball is corrupt. Caesar is not. Caesar is more of an aggressive visionary and military commander, just like his namesake. He's a highly intelligent and capable commander which is the reason why he waited 4 years to attack and why he has the Frumentarii. And why he got somebody like Lanius, a savage who doesn't actively command as much but rather instills fear in the Legionaries.

Kimball on the other hand, is just a figurehead President who spends money trying to take Las Vegas without the full realization that Mr. House can destroy NCR forces in the Mojave just as effectively as the Legion if they are upgraded to MK 2. General Oliver is an incompetent commander. He simply masses NCR troops to the Dam and wants to outfight the Legion. War is to outwit, not outfight.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What part of "Green troops with a few veteran units thrown in" did you not grasp? The majority of NCR's blooded and experienced combat units would still be back home in California. You know, the ones that are led by officers that fought the Enclave and Brotherhood, and won. The forces in the Mojave are fresh-from boot farmkids and college students on their first deployment, not experienced veterans back in the [censored] (the scariest of that bunch would be the Rangers.)

I'll grant that Oliver is a twit, but contend Kimball being a corrupt leader. And Caesar a visionary military leader? Oh, wait. You're a Legion lover, aren't you? That would explain the confusion between "depraved madman with a god complex" and "visionary military leader." Caesar's idea of "tactics" is human waves used to kill every man, woman and child in a target village. A fifth grader with some good Warhammer 40k chops could out-war that idiot.

Anyone going to bring up that the NCR will be fighting a 2 front if the Legion take the dam. Chief Hanlon talked about something happening in southern California that is drawing troops and resources from the Mojave. If the NCR does not take the dam they will be neck deep in a pool of blood soon.

The Brotherhood. Which is currently trying to get NCR's boot out it's sphincter.

I'm guessing the war for Caesar isn't so much about expanding his own empire, but rather stopping another empire from becoming even MORE deadly.

1. According to what? Gameplay? NCR seems to own the Legion. Lore? maybe, maybe not. Also isn't it just one person spying for the Legion in the NCR i wouldn't call that a vast spy network.

2. Caesar to me is just as corrupt as Kimball not for money but for power. He's hypocrite and will go against what he tells other to do. I'm not saying he isn't intelligent because he is but I wouldn't say he's all there either what with the tumor in his head and all. Also the reason he waited 4 years was because they were defeated, they needed that time to rebuild their numbers and prepare for another battle.

3. How would he even know about such a thing? You can't blame someone for not knowing about some secret chip that will upgrade a hidden bunker of robots. Also Mr. House needs someone to do it for him. Also the war comment is just plain wrong. Wars are won through both many wars are won through numbers and strategics. Both the Legion and NCR have won plenty with their numbers same with using tactics great example was the first battle at hoover, plus the legion using gurrila warefare.

As for the OP I think both the Legion and NCR could benefit from a loss. I still would prefer the NCR to win :hehe: but I still think it would underline some of the key flaws in their army making them fix them before another huge battle.

Lets see the regular NCR trooper can take down a legionary. The legion has A spy in Mccaren. Ceaser will die and they will fail...its inevitable.

The only way house can take down the NCR and not even then is with his UPGRADED MK 2 robots(like you said). But that wont help without the couriers invervention so thats not possible.

Yes oliver is a complete moron. He doesnt know how to command his troops properly.

...not really the point of this thread.