It devalues the character development in one of the few ways there are in the game to develop your character at all. It makes the perk choices that you commit to during the PC's adventure insignificant and unbinding.

I'll give you an example.. from Fallout (a for instance). In that game you can get a slaver tattoo (and the game gives you additional options), but that tattoo is permanent (and you got the reward). If you could "undo" getting the tattoo afterward... That's cheating the game. In Skyrim, it could mean getting all the blade perks and clearing out a dungeon, only to reset your perks, get new ones, and never have had the skills with the blade to have cleared the dungeon ~Its cheating; Its retconning your own character's history.

(And as was said elsewhere... Players would get crafting perks, make items, then trade the perks for combat perks; Keeping the items they lack the ability to have created. This is why its a cheat.)

Not to mention it just doesn't feel right in TES. This isn't your 'kill 5000 bunnies to get a respec token' MMO. :facepalm:

The game was designed to allow players freedom. That's the reason the old class and skill system was scrapped in favor of the new one. Todd has stated that he didn't feel players should have to fit into the role they chose in the beginning of the game, but how is this system any different? Regardless of what you think, 10 less perks is 10 less perks. Your character is that much inferior, and it does affect gameplay. Sure, you're no longer constrained by some meaningless title (which you could easily ignore and continue to make yourself a badass in your own image), but now you're denying yourself fun gameplay effects and features by choosing the wrong perk at the wrong time.

It's extremely limiting, and RPGs are extremely time consuming -- I don't think we should have to make new characters after making a mistake or two. Skyrim is a single player game. You play it by yourself and I play it by myself. I'm not at your house, forcing you to make choices you don't wish to make, so why do you feel you have the right to tell us how we should play this game? Or what we should be denied? If you have so little self-control that you need the developers themselves to omit or alter features just so you don't use them, that's your problem. Don't make it mine.

Such a feature wouldn't be forced down your throat (unlike what you're defending). It'd be completely optional, and the players who wish to take advantage of it can while those who feel it's "cheating" can simply ignore it.


Oh, and don't bring "balance" or "OP" into the mix, guys. This isn't an MMORPG. If you think something in Skyrim is cheap to use, don't use it. It's beyond me why people actually complain about things like the alchemy/smithing/enchanting exploit. "He's cheating! He's cheating!" Get over yourselves.


That's cheating in your opinion. Not everyone holds themselves to the same strict RPG rules you do.

I have no problem with the perk system. I pick a perk as it becomes available. If cast a lot of spells that level, I can pick a spell pick. If I don't have enough points for the perk iwant or I don't want what is available I don't perk I only wish I earned points faster in smithing.

Why does your character have to be 100% perfect? SO boring. Just treat them as backstory and get out there and explore the splendor of Skyrim!

Yes, reasonable

Reseting perks would be kind of OP. For example, I could make multiple sets of dragon armor with the dozens of scales and bones I have, then just reset all of the points from my smithing skill, since I dont really need them. Same goes for enchanting, in a way.

I do agree that the system in fallout was better, since almost every perk was useful no matter what type of player you were. In skyrim, you could try being a mage, then realize that you want to be a warrior instead. Problem is that youve wasted potentially dozens of perks on skills you no longer want to use.


(Also, console commands FTW)

I really want you to think hard on what you wrote here. Cause I am controlling myself from not flaming you till your eyebrows melt off.

If your a Mage why would you join the fighters guild. Its like saying I created the ultimate paladin character and I went through to be a Dark Brotherhood member. It makes no sense.

You can also beat the snot out of the guy with your fists if you want. Heck I beat him with a bow. If *YOU* want to do everything the game then make a character based around that, but don't complain to us about how you restrict your character and find blockages because you want to do everything.

The issue is, I, like a lot of people, already have an XBAWKS because I have a large family: The ability to have four players play one game on one TV is very useful, and not a PC-replicatable experience. Yeah, I like Halo. A lot of people do. My PC, on the other hand, is over 8 years old. I can use it for most things, but not serious gaming.

True, Diablo II didn't have a perk-reset for a long time, but sometime in the last couple of years patched in a much-needed once-a-difficulty-level Skill Reset system.


I'm not saying we need a way to reset perks at-will: I'm saying we need a limited ability to re-train perks, such as a way to re-assign one perk per level, no rollover. That way, it takes 50 levels to earn then re-spec 25 perk points.

Having a flexible perk-reassignment system also makes the game more fun by allowing you to "test-drive" perks before outright committing to them: If you don't like your perk selection this level, you can undo it next level and try a new perk instead.


You seem to treat "Replay Value" like it's a good thing: being forced to outright ABORT a game you have invested dozens-if-not-hundreds of hours into because of some early mistakes in character development is NOT a good thing. Especially with a game with such a long Early-Start as Skyrim.

I've invested three straight weeks into my current character. For the most part, she's what I want her to be - except I'm missing two perks because of what seemed a good idea at the time.

When each playthrough can log hundreds of hours, "replayability" stops becoming a positive trait to a game.


Well, what seems to be a good idea at the time doesn't always pan out: Again, I invested two points into Destruction to make myself an overwhelming offensive powerhouse that uses two hands for all endeavors... I want those perks back, because I found a Fire-breathing Dragon Shout, and the Dual-casting wasn't as impressive as the perk made it out to be. I got caught up in the "destruction is underpowered" [censored]storm.


Only if you're on PC.

Do people have so little self-control that they need to vehemently argue against a feature they claim to not want, but would somehow feel forced to use if it was available?

The problem with the perks is that they have more impact on the game than the skills, but that you can't actually try them out. Sure, there is a brief description, but not only doesn't that really give you a good idea how it really works, but you also don't know whether it will be useful later on. In a game where you are supposedly not ever locked into a role and that you'll play possibly 100s of hours with the same character, not being able to "respec" the perks seems needlessly limiting. Characters can't evolve "naturally" as you have to decide their destiny ahead of the time.

People play the game differently, and "choice" has always been a strong aspect of the the TES series. In Skyrim, there are many things you could do that you may not actually want to do, like powerleveling smithing and enchanting, which combined will allow you to completely break the game balance-wise, far more than a perk reset could ever do. So, since I know that, I don't go down that road with my current character. Why would it be difficult for people who feel that perks should be permanent to do the same and simply not make use of a perk reset option? Why the strong desire to force one's preferred playstyle on everyone else, in a single player game?

Note here that this doesn't affect me either way as I'm playing on the PC. If I decide for my character that I want different perks, I'll use the console. I'd prefer an in-game way for this, but as there is no in-game/RP reason why my character can only have 80 perks and then magically becomes unable to learn anything new even if he intensely practices a skill, I would not have a problem with just using the console. It wouldn't even affect the achievements, if those carried any importance to me.

So, in short, I don't get why people are against having more options and more choices in this marvel of an open world game even if they personally wouldn't make use of some of those possibilities. To me, it seems small-minded, and a little questionable if they are on a PC and want to deny the same functionality to an xbox user.

The general consensus is that it is cheaper to just buy the Console version than waste the time and money upgrading your computer to play it. I'm such an example. I bought the PC version because my PC SHOULD run it, but due to my graphics card being standard and Skyrim only using 2 of my 6 processors, I was forced to buy the PS3 version because I did not want to bother spending up to a week and hundreds of dollars to get a graphics card suitable for Skyrim, even though I should be able to run it in the first place (about the processors, previously mentioned). I'd rather spend $64 for console version than spend days buying a graphics card that will run skyrim that is $64 or lower (since thats price to just buy console..) and time to install it and everything. it's just too much of a hassle, thus you get it for console lol.

So now I have 2 versions, still totally worth it considering I traded in a game ($20) + gift card ($25) for PC version so it didn't kill my wallet as much, and I guess I'll wait to see if a patch comes out that'd use ALL processors instead of just 2 and stick to PC then. Until that time comes, PS3 for me. It's too bad as well, I wanted PC for mods. Thinking of getting Morrowind & Oblivion on PC now (never got to play MW, and had Oblivion for PS3 as well...my previous computer was utter crap so that's why)

I don't see how RPG rules (strict or loose) apply to it; It was designed by the studio to be a Yes or No choice with immutable consequences. :shrug:

*Hypothetically... If a player finds an infinite money exploit in a game, and uses it... Is that cheating or not? Does it really depend on the individual person asked?

I recently bought Megarace 2. I use two cheats that start you with $99,000 and a faster than normal car. I find it more fun to play that way, but I still consider it cheating.
(I've already said that I would not be opposed to a perk reset option. I can see how players might want to use it, and that's fine; but do you really consider it not cheating? Does not calling it cheating mean that it isn't?)

:foodndrink:

dear god please no...

We're not asking for an exploit. We're asking for a feature. Whether or not using said feature is considered "cheating" is governed by whatever "RPG rules" the player happens to go by. That's how they apply. So yes, it does depend on the individual person in this case.

The whole PC vs console debate is a bit silly at this point. Most people have consoles because they are damn cheap and all most as useful as computers. The best part is they are designed for TV display. I can hook my computers up to my TV, but I tend to rely on my 360 or PS3 to do most of the streaming I want, Music entertainment I want, and some videogaming I do.

To be honest I find Skyrim much more enjoyable to play with a controller then a keyboard/mouse. not to mention my 50+' TV is sixy with my stereo. While I can hook my PC to my TV and Stereo why bother when my Xbox is all ready there.

As for the comment above about having a family and using the console. Damn straight batman. There are more then a few good games for families on consoles that you just don't get on PC. RockBand has been a great family time in our house.

While I would have appreciated the ability to reset perks on my character, who I've restarted three times due to build mistakes (yeah, I'm a perfectionist in this regard), I would have to say 'no' to it actually being implemented.

Why?

Because it's way too easily abused.

Take, for example, my character. I made the deliberate decision to go Enchanting+Smithing+Speech (as a result of selling all that crap) early on, with the attendant perk investment, although I won't be maxing either Enchanting or Smithing until later, so that I would have some fairly good gear early on instead of the vendor trash you usually find at early levels. I knew going in that this would mean largely gimping my combat effectiveness early on, but that was a trade-off I was willing to make. Since I knew I was stuck with the perks I picked, I had to choose carefully when not eligible for one in the Smithing or Enchanting trees (which was more often than one might think) so that the perks placed elsewhere set me up for later advancement in their respective areas.

The ability to do a total reset would throw all that out the window, since it would enable me to transfer all the points and perks from Enchanting/Smithing to, say, Archery and Sneak, making my decision to choose those skills over combat ones early on null and void.

I could see them doing that in a Dlc ( drink this potion to begin from your journey through the stars). or somthing like that would be nice to remove all that time I put into two handed swords to learn they svck, But make it so you can only use it once or twice.

No, no resets.

Now go back to WoW and spend that 50 copper on epix respec-zor.

I know this point was made back on the first page, but it kind of illustrates everything that's wrong with the Perk Respec argument.

The system was designed to be more flexible. Not more forgiving (whatever that means). It was not designed so that you could have a character who did everything really well. Referring back to the OP: the reason that you would pick different perks for College quests vs. Thieves Guild quests vs. Companions quests is really simple. You were never intended to join every guild on a single character. That's why you have the option to start a new game.

A quest to reset them all once would be nice...So they are still important but are more forgiving

Cuz I have like 5 points in destruction that are completely useless...

Perk reset would easily break the game.
"Herp derp 100 smithing/enchanting, lemme make nice gear..okay time to reset because I don't need the smithing/enchanting anymore "

100 smithing and enchanting already breaks the game. It makes no difference if you one-shot a dragon while having these two skills or if you one-shot a dragon after you dropped them by resetting your perks, if that is how you want to play the game.

So, would anyone like to explain how having an in-game option to respec would impact your own game experience negatively? (I mean, we PC users can already do it anyway, and it doesn't even affect the Steam achievements, so would you like for the console to be removed?)

Skyrim is an RPG. Why do you think it should be impossible for a person to role-play as a Mage for a "year" before dropping all that training and picking up a sword? Why do you feel that person should be limited in their freedom in a single-player game? Why do you feel their countless hours of building that character should be worthless because they happen to change play-styles?

Seems like you're more interested in how we play the game than how much we actually enjoy it. If you want to role-play in a way that limits your character, feel free to do so. Don't force that upon others though. You can choose to ignore a perk reset feature. We cannot use one that doesn't exist. Doesn't seem fair, does it?


Console breaks the game. Get over it.

I don't think anyone opposes the option. What we oppose is the developers taking the time to develop that option, instead of working on cool DLC that doesn't defeat the entire purpose of the new leveling system.

Why do people have such a hard time making decisions and living with them?

Even if it 'breaks' the game thats just what it is, a GAME.

and the game is all about having fun and being entertaining, and being able to easily change skills at least once makes it much easier to try something new without having to make a whole new character.

and since there is no MP and you don't have to do it it only 'breaks' the game to those who want it broken.