Some of the most fun of RPGs (in my opinion) is advancement of my character, and perks are usually the best way to see and feel like my character is progressing

But if the number of available perks is very high and the amount you can take is too low, it feels very restrictive to me

What about you?

How many full skill constellations should one character be able to complete?



Bonus question

How do you feel about required multi rank perks to advance up a perk tree?

I want to master exactly as many as I can with 50 perks.

Replayability is a good thing.

As for multi-rank perks, I think it should work like The Witcher 2. The first point gives a normal bonus and allows passage deeper into the tree, and any more ranks you choose just make that multi-rank perk stronger.

I'm glad we can't have more than 50 perks, if we could chose 120 or all 280, what's the point of making a new character? Thank god Bethesda isn't going that route and thank god there won't be a respec option (Hopefully.)

Restrictions on character skills do add replay value, when done correctly.

I like tough choices when picking a character so it feels like the path I choose is not obvious and if I play again I might not try the same route. And yes, I replay a lot because I feel rediculous being the head of more than one guild. If I really like a character after finishing the first guild I just explore for a while, but I rarely make it to a high level even with the favorites.

As for worrying about restrictions, I'm sure there will be enough fun items, spells and unique abilities gained for high level characters to help most forget about the forgone perks.

Anything beyond 6 trees is too much imo.

I for one really like having at least enough to make a well rounded character

A fighter needs armor, shields, weapons, and some how a way to heal themselves

That's at the bare minimum 4 for the most basic of all characters (not including security, ranged, or any social skills)

What about a mage, thats even worse, multiple magic types, unarmored, and the same social skills

For those that voted 2, why?!

I wont even fill the trees. A true role player will pick perks carefully to make his/her character juuuuuust right. Not to "uberify" certain skills.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this.

I think it should be around three or four fully mastered, then another two or three partially so.

I think you're confusing skills with the skill perks.

You don't need to max out a skill tree to be "good" or even a "master" of a skill. Having no perks in a skill and a 100 skill level is going to make you just as good in that skill as a 100 skill in Oblivion. The perks are extra. You only have to pick the ones you like, the ones you'll find useful. So put your perks in your main skills. As a fighter you'd do maybe 8 perks in Block, 8 in One-handed, 8 in Heavy Armor, some in Restoration. Then you'll have maybe 20 perks left over to sprinkle into your secondary skills.

I was going to make a mage as my first character, but I think I'll do my classic Spellsword instead but with a twist: Argonian! Pretty much my first lizard, though I have a noob one in Oblivion now and might play a little Daggerfall. Anyway, I'm going to focus mostly on One-handed and Destruction. I'll probably have 5 or so perks in One-handed because I really only want swords, maybe 10 in Destruction depending on how it's divided up. Then I'll have a bunch to put into my other "major" skills like Alteration, Illusion, Heavy Armor (might skip Restoration to make things harder). I don't know how I'm going to find 50 perks to pick, let alone feel like I'll need more.

Agreed! :thumbsup:

Agreed with your agreed

im not confusing about anything. At least i dont think so ; :teehee:

In morrowind if you had 100 in shield you blocked alot and you lost no health when you blocked

Now in Skyrim, just having 100 does not mean that much, you get way less damage if you have perks, you do way more with that shield if you have perks

The 100 skill at least for the one skill we know of has been "nerfed" so that enough perks can be put in place

What does the "Shield Wall" perk do for shields and the block skill?

I know one thing. With my first character, he's definitely going to be a master forger. Hopefully there aren't that many perks to choose from under the smithing skill but at the same time I hope there is. It's the #1 skill that I'm really anxious to see what the perks are for it.

I'm considering Armorer as well, along with Enchanting. Wielding a giant, magical 2 hander that I meticulously crafted/imbued myself is quite the exciting concept.

I was sceptical about perks when I first head about them as I didnt like it in Fo3, but with 280 perks, in thier perk trees, I'm betting it will add alot of replayability and wildly diverse characters.

Skill ranks are now secondary to perks. The perk trees are the specific techniques and training your character makes use of, whereas the skills themselves are a measure of how refined your natural talent is.

100 Block in Morrowind reduced damage by 100% because all blocks, at any skill level, reduced damage by 100%. The skill level only determined how often you blocked, because you couldn't do it manually.

In Oblivion you could block manually, and so they had to change it up. In Oblivion Block determined how much damage was reduced. However, it was never 100% damage reduction.

In Skyrim, Block will work pretty much like Oblivion, where skill determines damage reduced but never reaches 100%. With some perks maybe you can get it up to 100%, but even if you can that doesn't mean 100 Block skill without perks is any weaker than in Oblivion. The perks are optional and they'll make you a better fighter, but you can spend them elsewhere and still be a formidable fighter. 100 skill and no perks will very likely be more powerful than, say, 50 and perks.

Yet in Oblivion just having a 100 you could


* An Expert blocking with shield has a 25% chance to do a knockback counterattack, staggering the enemy if the shield blow connects
* A Master blocking with a shield has an additional 5% chance of disarming the enemy with a successful knockback counterattack

Now those both seem to be perks

With 75% block you could block arrows for a 50% damage reduction.

Another change into a perk


With a shield you block 75% of damage at 75 to 100

I think to get to the level in Skyrim your going to have to take some levels of shield wall


All in all 100 in skills now means far less then it did in Skyrim if the block skill is representative of the rest of the skills and perks

I will have to wait to see what all the perks are and which race, what type of character I'm going to play.

Since some of the coolest perks are only going be available by focusing a bit more on one skill, I will probably try to do that with at least one skill somewhat early, and eventually over time, master a couple other skills as well.

It not about maxing a tree, its about picking the perks to make your build. Hopefully you wont have to pick perks to get to other perks tat you didnt want. I'd rather not pick a perk at a certain level up oppose to picking something that isn't who my build is.

I imagine one of the first mods will be something that removes the 50 perk limit for those who want to keep earning new perks beyond level 50.

I'm going for 3 then choosing back ups from other skills in that discipline, if thats possible of course.

And that would be beyond wonderful if they could mod the 360

So what are you saying, that you just want as many perks as possible?