That's the point.

@HARVEYtheDAMNED Welcome back.

That′s how you define your character, specifically what he was. After all, you don′t judge a painting by its canvas, now do you?

I'm not sure why people are saying the new system has a lack of specialization. Yes, you can get every perk in the game if you want, but you've got to spend 40 levels just to have the ability to do that, giving up other extremely important perks in the process. That means no extra weapon damage, no damage resistance, no mods for improving weapons, no lock picking or hacking to get more resources. Yeah, your body may be a temple, but you'll most likely be in a lot worse shape than if you had picked up perks along they way as you try to kill Deathclaws with basic pipe pistols, tickling it and making it laugh itself to death instead of doing any real damage.

And there are a ton of different builds you can go with.

Right now, I've got a smooth talking, intelligent cowboy who uses energy pistols. He's a local leader, is good at picking locks and hacking, and is really focused on weapon and armor mods, along with building settlements. He's got good Perception (the only stat I actually leveled up with a perk once) and Intelligence and decent Charisma and Agility. However, he's fairly weak, and has low endurance and is unlucky. He uses pistols and light armor.

My next character is going to be a heavy weapons guy-- lots of strength and endurance. A walking tank who uses power armor and mini-guns. Decent technical skills to keep his armor in good shape, but slower than molasses and not really perceptive and again, not much in the way of luck.

I've also got ideas for a sniper build-- lots of agility, perception and luck. Not much else.

Another idea I have is an athlete. High endurance and agility allows him to sprint everywhere especially with a focus on action point recovery, closing the distance with enemies (and providing DR while it's happening) and take their heads off with a melee weapon.

There are a lot of ways you can specialize in this game. As a matter of fact, I feel I've got a lot more ways to specialize in this than in FO3 where I was basically a walking god with 100 in every skill by end game.

How is removing the player level requirement (not the attribute req) cheating?

I agree with the OP. I really enjoy the game overall, but it would have been that much better with a more multi-layered character development system.

This is kind of my build at the moment, although I've dropped Int and upped Luck to 5 for Idiot Savant, to compensate. I haven't really gone to town on heavy weapons yet, mainly because ammo's quite hard to come by. Once I've got a few more ranks in Scrounger and Locksmith though I'm hoping that'll change!

Got to say I'm really enjoying it.

I'm quite pleased with the new perk system and think it's a vast improvement over the skill system. Some points:

1) "The perks in FO4 must be taken 1 at a time" - While that's true, dropping a perk point in lockpicking or hacking is basically equivalent to dropping 25 in those skills back in Fo3. So, yes, it's one at a time, but it's a very mighty "one".

2) "an absurd level cap that you need to reach to access the next one" - This was certainly a ballsy choice from BGS, while I'm ultimately neutral on this choice, I am liking it quite a bit as it's making me really think about where I want to spend that point. Otherwise, it'd be a no-brainer, "let's max out this perk and move on" scenario.

3) "this is unacceptable, and game breaking" - I accept it and find it not to break the game in the least.

4) "While I can enjoy playing FO3/NV in any way that I like; Whether that be making a thief, a gunman, a stealthy assassin, ect. I cannot do the same in Fallout 4" - shenanigans. There, I called it.

5) "The game simply does not allow you to role play, the entire concept has been removed since you cannot specialize your character into one particular field, and play around that field." - The big thing that you're missing is that there are plenty of perks in other SPECIAL trees that will compliment your character and can synergize well with each other. It's totally fine and downright logical to hop into another tree for a few perks before cycling back to your main focus.

6) "Thanks for that, you know how the community just doesn't care about character building, you can ignore it that's okay" - Here's my role-playing/character building in all previous FO games: Bump INT to 9 and lower CHA to 1. Play however I want. That's it. I mean, it makes total sense have no charisma and be able to charm everyone and everything because my speech skill is high and despite my STR being low, I am a master of all melee. Bow to me!!!! *ok, enough of that, but I'll go on a limb and say that the character creation and level processes have never felt as impactful and balanced as they do in Fo4. You have to make some tough (and mostly meaningful) choices about where you spent your perk and SPECIAL points.

Totally agreed with u.

Since they new system introduction, i again not feeling OP at level 5 after getting guns all the way to 100. Now when i leveling is feel im progressing.

I really dont understand how anyone that play RPG think the skill system wasnt unbalance as hell.

Im glad most of the ppl that post of the forum arent making games.

I Agree with the OP...its sad I wanted skills and perks and yes waiting to level 40 or whatever to get master lockpick and not having perks like LP tied to AGI is laziness but all we can hope is a modder redoes the whole mess.

I get that other people see that gradual increase in skill points is the point, but I rather disagree. The point was to increase your skills so that they do something. If I spend a bunch of points in a skill that does absolutely nothing for me, why have skill points in the first place? Let my choices actually mean something rather than "one step closer to doing something useful." Limit the points I can spend so i don't create some uber OP character at low levels, but make each point matter.

This is the crux, I think, of the difference between both "sides" on this issue. I just wish the rhetoric and overly dramatic phrasing would end. This isn't a "worse" system. It's a system you (I think) don't like, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. It's just a different system, one that I happen to think was a good idea on Bethesda's part. Implementation was perhaps a little off, but the system as a whole works for me.

LOL comments like ur just make me realize u didnt care to read the perk chart bc u can get Master lock picker at level 19. so yeahhhhh. no thank

The perk system is quite nice actually, the problem is in the simplification - it always means that you have less choices and thus less replay value.

Because it's a choice, and you don't have enough points to pick everything. Advancement is designed to span levels (in this case), and the PC can either be working towards a better proficiency (with tangible rewards), or they can [indecisively] spend their time learning the basics (of various skills) ~again and again.
Think of skill points as hours (or days/ or weeks) spent, and then imagine spending those hours/days/weeks learning one language or three.

Three weeks in [spent] on one language might not be enough to comfortably converse, but six weeks might... but six weeks spent across three languages gives you just two weeks spent on each; when three wasn't enough.

I understand your frustration. I felt the exact same way at first. I play a pacifist extremist on hardcoe mode. At first I just decided this game wasn't designed with me in mind, but after playing for a bit I am really pumped about the changes they've made here.

Yes, you can't play every single scenario the way you would have liked. You can't just blast into the game and immediately be unkillable at level 4 like you were in Fallout New Vegas. This makes complete sense to me. You can't solve every single problem in the world using grenades and sneak. The game would be completely broken if you could.

You may just have to do what I have done and seek out missions which accommodate your skill set and preferred mode of play. That's what I have done and I have found that not all the missions in the game can be solved using my preferred methods, but a surprising number actually can even though it may not seem that way at first.

Oh no. Fallout 4 doesn't have skills? I haven't gotten the game yet, was going to wait for mods. This is very disappointing. The lack of attributes in Skyrim was my biggest complaint, now my biggest complaint from Skyrim has basically been transplanted into Fallout. Well this svcks.

I would argue that the choice is even more important in the system in use in FO4. In FO3, and F:NV, it wasn't hard to make a character with 100 points in almost everything, even with a lower intelligence. Skills made the SPECIAL stats nearly irrelevant. 100 Melee skill and bashing some poor schmucks head in with a strength of 1 was not only possible, similar situations were ubiquitous. Nearly every piece of build advice I've ever seen has said to drop Charisma to 1 because it simply didn't matter. Boost Speech to 100, and you're good to go.

The conversation system in FO4 is definitely one of its weak points, there's no denying that. No perk or SPECIAL related conversation options that I've seen, and I've heard tell from others that they just don't exist in FO4. But the rest of the SPECIAL stats do matter now, in that you only have access to certain perks at certain SPECIAL levels. No more super sneaky characters with a low Agility, etc.

On top of that, with only one point per level, you really need to choose where to spend it. If choice is the key, I'd argue that FO4 is inestimably better in that regard. If freedom of choice to boost skills at a slower rate but advance more generally, than I'd argue that FO3/NV and FO4 are pretty well equal. Yes, in one go you can gain a 20% increase in handgun damage, for instance, but that's all you can do that level...and with the level caps, the next level gives you the opportunity to choose something else. And levels come fast enough that you do have that freedom, just not all in one go.

I understand your point, and in many ways it's a valid one. That's how you'd prefer the skill system to be. I didn't particularly care for the skill system in F:NV, but it served its purpose, and the Perk system in FO4 does the same. I prefer the new system. You don't, and I have no issue with that. I just think it's overstating the issue to call the current system "dumbed down" and "horrible" when it really just isn't. If you never made those comments, that last statement wasn't for you, but I have read that, and more besides, in this topic so far.

the fact that lockpick is under ENDURANCE! PROVES my point AND THE OP'S......the level required for LP ranks is a moot point was just an example, so yes i DID read the chart [censored] picking a lock should have nothing to do with endurance, why should i have to put 4-5-6 points in a stat i dont want just to get a perk i do! learn to READ and think in a mature fashion before popping off

I mean PERCEPTION sorry

Um, Lockpicking is under perception, not endurance. I'd say perception makes a lot of sense because you need to be able to hear and fell those tumblers. In fact, I feel nearly every perk makes sense to which stat it belongs to, except for maybe Refractor.

That's how the entire [censored] thing works.... are you really complaining about having to have a SPECIAL number high enough to get something you want? When has gaming EVER been that easy for you that you could just get every skill or ability you want without getting something you don't want? Might as well just cheat since I've never seen a game that game me everything I wanted right when I wanted it, without other stuff that I (personally) didn't want.

You felt the need to bring CoD into the argument. Thanks, I can diffidently ignore everything you say now because clearly you are basing your opinions on emotion rather than logic.

FYI any time someone uses "just like CoD" in an argument, they have already lost.

read the definition of what perception does, its a measurement of how you see your surroundings. when your picking a lock your surroundings have little to do with how you move the bobby pin? no?

Sorry wrong again.

Perception is your sense of touch, sight and hearing. That has 100% to do with how you move a bobby pin, listen to he tumblers and watch for any catches in the lock.

How you could not see this is beyond me.

in FO3 and NV lockpicking was tied to other skills like agility and perception both and went up to 100. you also had special lockpick sets to change your statI did not have to have a single stat at a given number (in F04 its 5 or 6) JUST TO LOCKPICK A NOVICE tumbler which means if i make my perception 3 its at least 4-5 levels into the game if i put every point into perception.... before i can pick a single lock.

Yet again factually incorrect. Try playing the game before spouting off nonsense that people can easily error check you on.

You can hack novice terminals and novice locks at level 1 with no perks.

Level 1 perk gives you access to advanced locks/terminals. So your point is entirely wrong.

That's your perception of it LOL

idk how you don't think a lock isn't part of your surroundings but ok?