I read your example but hate to break it to you, he is correct and you are wrong here.

Unlocking level requirements means by level 11 you would have access to every terminal and every lock and have weapons that do 2x as much damage as they should at your level. That is entirely unbalanced.

The new system keeps players from meta gaming into a diety by lvl 15.

Tell me, just exactly who are you cheating in a single player game? I mean, maybe cheating yourself but really...your game and nobody else is effected so just what difference does it make?

OK what skill are you missing exactly? Because I cannot think of anything not covered by perks besides survival but you can just make all food right at the beginning anyway.

I don't see how special skills mean less. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you just had to make your intelligence a 9 or 10. I always lowered my charisma to 1 but always got 100 in speech and barter. So how is this new system dumb down for consoles again?

Exactly, one of the reasons I do indeed like the level requirement with perks. I'm at level 40 and I still don't feel godlike.

Man, this guy^ I like him!

Have fun being a level 12 nerd who doesnt know how to shoot straight with your superguns. Have fun reaching the places with all your fantastic treasures without knowing how to sneak, fight or survive. Besides that, games like Fallout and TES have the inbuilt option to make the game as easy or as hard as the player wants it to be. If one buys Fallout 4, uses the no level req mod and searches the web for hidden legendary/unique weapons sites and blasts away, more power to him. The people who complain about the lack of skill do so because it makes it harder for them to roleplay, not because it makes the game harder.

Dont know if you′re talking to me, but anyway. I′m missing perks(not skills) wich increase your chances to hit.

Bethesda just doesn't know how to do game design.

The problem isn't that perks are level and stat dependent. Problem is that beth just doesn't know how to make interesting perks. A lot of perks are just strict damage buffs.

Linear power progression creates so many design problems that it is not even funny.

Just out of curiosity, which option would folks prefer? TES V: Skyrim, no Attributes but skills that unlock perks as your character levels up or, Fallout 4, with SPECIALs that unlock perks with no skill grinding.

I am of the opinion that the Fallout 4 character leveling system is superior to Skyrim, in this regard. I state this as I find it completely rediculous to have a character with the max skill level while still having a minimum Attribute that should govern its use in the first place. Let me give some examples to illustrate my point.

A Strength 1 character should not be a master of melee combat in any form.

A Perception 1 character should not be a master at picking locks. It requires more sense of touch and hearing than anything else.

An Endurance 1 character should not be a master of anything Athletic. How could you master running if you can not Sprint more than 30 seconds.

A Charisma 1 character should not be a master of anything requiring speech. That said person is one of the biggest jerks or can speak less than a dog can.

An Intelligence 1 character should not be a master of anything academic.
That same character can not count past 10, barring taking his shoes off.

An Agility 1 character should not become a master at Stealth. He is just lucky enough not to be in a wheel chair.

These are just a few examples that I have chosen to list. I specifically omitted the Luck attribute, due to its fickle nature.

I never cared for TES level system. It made avoid crafting in Skyrim

I prefer the new system. But it can be improved. And it will be.

Man, people really need to stop pre-ordering games if they're going to get so angry about them.

As for the progression system in FO4, I think it is more "natural" than the skill system in FO3 and New Vegas. Being able to have a CHR 1 character with 100 speech doesn't make sense from a role-playing perspective, nor does a fresh-out-of-the-vault character being able to become a master assassin (100 sneak) or a master lockpicker within a couple days out of the vault. To me, consistency within the game world is part of role playing more than empowering players with unlimited choice. Also, if players want to make characters with flaws, you can do that with self-imposed limitations. For example, set up your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. attributes and make a personal rule not to put any perk points into increasing them. The new system is pretty good in my book.

I think the character level requirement is practical, but not logical. It should be swapped with an attribute level requirement. If you want to open master safes, you need to have 10 agility for example. That would be natural, but a large number of players would feel restricted. I′m sure there will be mods who do this.

Stepping back a bit, I have to kind of wonder just how much a character is gaining by taking perks? Say, for example, he takes Gun Nut and makes his firearms do more damage. That sounds advantageous, but compare what is happening to targets between early game, middle game, and late game. Early game, you CAN bring down a Supermutant with a 10-point damage 10-mm pistol. By middle game, if you had NOT improved the weapon via Gun Nut, you would need to exhaust your 10-mil ammo to bring down one Supermutant. By late game, it wouldn't matter if you had infinite ammo; the Supermutant would just walk through your hail of bullets and beat you into the dirt.

As I see it, you don't need the Perks to gain an advantage. You need them just to stay competitive.

Perks are a replacement for skills. Literally. That's how the leveling system works in this game.

You don't need the perk to exchange parts from one weapon to another. If my character doesn't have gun nut, I can replace any modification on weapons I find with the standard mod, the old mod ends up in my inventory and can now be applied to my own favourite weapon. With a lot of good equipment being dropped and laying around, I am not really short on good upgrades for my weapons even without modification perks. The science perk is more useful, because the high-tec mods are more rare.

Nice summer

wow, apperently freedom of speech has been lost and never to be found. BTW, that was a harmless jab at anothers smart ass comment. Im a construction worker, so if you want to hear some [censored] up derogatory [censored], i can dish it out better than most. Soft bellied moderators raised in a cardboard box, that get offended when someone doesnt agree with them. "One day we all woke up and were offended by everything" .............joke...........

Better kick me, im not following the sheep, masta herder. I mean, what will I ever do without this forum..........My life is over! Sad, just sad....

Not sure I entirely agree. If you "need" Perception 3 to hear tumblers in a lock, you shouldn't need better hearing to unlock a higher level lock, you should need more experience unlocking things. Since this isn't an Elder Scrolls game (skill leveling = character leveling rather than XP) an XP level requirement in a way ensures that you have gain experience unlocking many things along the way. It makes sense to me, but I do get that some people are feeling straightjacketed by the changes. I never was a power gamer in FO3/NV, so I have had an easier time adjusting.

So true. I regulary get my ass beaten when facing 3 or more supermuts. I shudder just to think what would happen to me, had i had put all my perk points in science and lockpicking...

Relax buddy, i didn′t read Summers comment as anything but her opinion and i don′t think she disagrees. Unless i missed something, everything is good.

Yes, your explanation makes sense too. I can live with both types of requirement.

This is pretty much how it works, except the perk category is unlocked by the relevant SPECIAL attribute's level and then the levels in that category are gated by level. Not a huge difference in my book.

I feel like I miss something but geez dude relax

na, i posted a witty, friendly, yet dirty comment to your "postcard" comment, and summer deleted it and gave me "warning points" whatever those are for harassment. I was having fun with our little back and fourth, and thought it was harmless. I kind of get sick and tired of kids trying to tell me the "politically correct" way i "have" to speak. Ur good dude, no harm, no foul. And if i get thrown out, so be it. No sweat off my nuts. Just a stupid game forum, its not the UN debate room.