Well we already got perks. So let's assume in next game they replace skills with Feats, which do the same thing as skills and more, yeah I would be. I'm not so invested in a single mechanic that I am blinded to the possibilities of a new mechanic.

Well thats really bad and strange decision, instead making attributes more important then they was in Oblivion devs decided remove them completely, because they was simplified in Oblivion thats not mean attributes was useless in previous games.

Attributes were the same in Morrowind and Oblivion, can't remember about Arena or Daggerfall anymore.

But I think the devs know exactly what they are doing. They were not removing them over night.
They thought long about it and came to the conclusion, that attributes are not necessary.

We, on the other hand, know nothing about the skill or let's say advancement system despite that there are perks and no attributes.
So why comlaining about something we haven't even tried yet? Doesn't make sense to me.

Actually at least a few of them were significantly more useful in Morrowind than Oblivion. For example intelligence affected how strong your potions were and I think it also affected persuasion.

Both skills and perks replace attributes. I could be said that attributes are implied by skills and perks. If someone is good with a blade, it's a fair bet that he is strong and agile and somewhat intelligent.

Well no the are wasn't, because in Oblivion attributes almost no have impact on skills and only involved in some hardcoded formulas and variables (even there many of such variables was set to zero influence or have such miserable values so don't even have visible impact on gameplay), in Morrowind attributes greatly affect chance of successful using of skills, intelligence was useful not only for mages but also for Enchanters and Alchemist, actually in Morrowind beginner mages has really hard start since suffer greatly from miscasts and having one point of Magicka per one point of Intelligence, but become much more powerful in middle game, willpower have inbuilt magic resistance.
In Daggerfall Attributes has even more importance since reaching zero in one of attributes mean death for character, having lower then average attributes mean having penalties (willpower for example give weakness to magic)
In Arena attributes also has many additional features not just one, for example Intelligence affects your chances in negotiating for items and other purchases. It also affects your chances of figuring out a lock in case you wish to pick it. It is essential that any mage or thief has a high Intelligence.


I wish to see how hard to them take such decision, how they really think about ways making attributes more useful after simplification in Oblivion more useful like in previous games.

Well thats make sense for me, game still in developing, and we can still influence on it, developers still undecided about all features, some changes what they done to radical for series and maybe they will see our suggestions and prayers.

And that was made on purpose because they wanted skills to matter a lot more than attributes.

With 3 selections for those that would prefer a hybrid assortment of perks and attributes you need to add those rows up to get their true value. So a hybrid approach seems to have the lead. It looks like the majority would prefer a little realism in their character rather than a completely contrived and fake perk system. It also seems that just attributes are not desired at all. Ignoring for a second Beth's wrongheaded explanation that the health meters are attributes then I would venture to guess that the preference would be for some kind of base attributes working n conjunction with perks.

First of all health and so on is not a attribute if i remember correctly it have never been a attribute in ANY elder scrolls game. But i could ofc remember wrong...
The reason why they wont add attributes is because they would have to make them useful compared to how unimportant they are in Oblivion (and that is a result of them streamlining the game so much).

To the help that like / are happy that they remove it because it makes it easier... I recommend that you go and play adventure games and leave rpg's alone. Stats help build your character and (if the devs are not lazy) allows the gameplay experience to change depending on what build you go.

But then again... Who cares about rpg elements in a rpg game!? \o/

The decision about attributes was a major decision in game design. It influenced everything from perks to skills to quests to gameplay.
They will definitely not change it anymore if they want to release Skyrim this year (or even next year).

And as I said, we have no idea of the new system. I'm sure the decision of removing attributes took weeks, and they carefully thought about the pros and cons and how it could work.
It wasn't a over night decision.

I honestly can't say if it's better or worse if I haven't tried it.

I'll reserve judgement until i play Skyrim. This kind of RPG hasn't been tried before so we'll see. I just hope it doesn't feel like leveling up a character in an online style FPS.

Yeah, it's like skills doesn't do exactly just that either....

I think thats the most prudent thing you can do.

In my opinion it's stupid to judge the new system before you tested it (I mean to hype that the perksystem is great and the best solution (beth isn't god) AND/OR to get frightned because you think it svcks).

Other - because I don't really care, as long as it's fun and males sense.

I don't see any reason to have boring attributes that don't have much of any affect. Honestly, is it roleplaying if your character is "perfect" in Intelligence and Strenght and all others. If it was more like D&D then maybe, but with the system from previous games, having only perks is a good option.

Less non-effectual statistic that are indentical for most characters and have very little connection to "reality" and more proper choices that have real effects on the character.

I don`t know why they couldn`t do it like Fallout 3? If you want a base to start with like, "I`m a happy [censored] who`s really strong," then your base personality and strength are set higher than say, "I kill everyone in their sleep with a needle," who doesn`t need personality and isn`t (for intensive purposes) strong. If you take away attributes completely, I just don`t see how they`ll be able to distinguish between those types of characters from the start and isn`t that what all this homo RPing is about? Sorry gay people, I wish I was gay cause there are such good terms.... Maybe I`ve gone too far, this kind of [censored] always gets me in trouble. I love gay people, and in fairness to a straight man who doesn`t RP in the traditional sense of "caring", such manner of character creation is as foreign to me as the testicles of another man. Anyhoo, now that I`ve attempted to stave off warning (seriously, I love gay people = more girls for me, less people being born, generally make the world a better place, fascinating conversation, great parades, so on...) it irks me that people will be limited in that way. Unless they`ve got a totally new way of determining strength during character selection whereby you can give them more or less muscle, make them young or old, and make it so strength and weakness is determined more by the style you play rather than "spreadsheety" choices you make at definite points in the game. Like in GTA San Andreas, you could eat a bunch and get fat, or workout/run around doing crap to get muscle/thinner. That would be fine, and then your size or magic determines how much you can carry, or you get a wicked satchel from a store. In the end, I think what matters is not so much what you`ll become, but how you start off, and the impact your beginning will have on how you want to tailor your individual outcome. Unless your race and bodytype affect hidden strength stats or weaknesses, then it`ll be unfortunate for the people out there who care about being a fat elf who everyone wants to be friends with. Maybe how ugly you are determines other people`s disposition. HA! That would be a slap in the face. Or your character could be smiling like an ass and everyone would like him and feel pity.

Perks. I like this whole thing, why not?

I totally disagree, and just thought that yes, attributes can be totally replaced by perks. They have to be general perks however. If you are given the choice of five or ten perks off the bat then that`ll shape your character nicely. A general perk that increases melee and hand to hand damage by X amount, another perk that rewards being a magic dink, it all makes sense and it`ll all work out fine. I can`t wait, it`ll be the greatest expenditure of hundreds of hours since the new Fallout games. Because I have to agree with everyone else, trying to increase a number value, simply to increase another number value, is lame. Now you`ll be "grinding" your sword skills on ne`er-do-wells to get that oh so unrelated +10 weapon damage perk. From the sounds of it the whole game should be one giant grind to you, right omega?

I don`t mind one or the other but I guess removing attributes frees me from the work of maxing them to 100.

I think you`re missing the point Timmy; the Orcs still have their "battle leaning" racial profiles from the get go but now you won`t have -10 wisdom or some [censored]. You`ll likely still have the berserker rage type of power and the bonuses towards weapons and combat. Attributes blow! Unless, there`s no equivalent way of distinguishing a strong arms ability to wield weapons over a weaklings, or that you can have a small speedy person vs. a small slow one that everyone likes or despises. Like other people have said, the character wasn`t born and then you get him or her, they were something, and now you make them even more (or less if you`re a masochist and you want to RP a guy who sits in his room all day leafing through the Elderscrolls).

I really do not mean to anger, but if you found that you had some sort of 'duty' to max all your attributes I think you weren't really playing the game in a fun game.

I suppose it's just a matter of playstyle.

Attributes with some perks.

Wait and see. Attributes seem in retrospect like they could possibly have been even more of a novelty than perks considering they didn't really DO much other than assuage people's fears of not being able imagine a difference in characters without stats to the effect

If I want to do the most damage I can, I will maximize, I did maximize, and maximizing - was boring. I wouldn`t play that way again I suppose, but when you first start playing, you want to be the best. I do hope there`s a way to distinguish yourself right off the bat however, and as an example from Fallout 3, if you wanted to be more diplomatic, you`d give yourself 10 personality and go around chattin everyone up. Outside of general perks being chosen from the get go, I don`t know how they intend to pull that off. I don`t think the race attributes should apply (because it`s discrimination) but they would still have, as someone else said, their biological/innate abilities like Frost resistance for Nords and huge dikes for Redguards.

I`m curious to see how they`ll balance everyone`s individual character qualities with the perks. I also want to point out that perks aren`t just hit level five and pick an ability, for some that don`t quite get that, it still largely depends on what skills you use - which is identical to having a skill number where you get X ability like in Oblivion. It`s almost like people are mixing up skills and attributes.

My opinion.