It's called specialization, and it's quite welcome imo.

Much better than TES3/4's system where you can just nearly max every skill and be the same.

Perks do what attributes did. We get over 85x3, which is at least 255 spell effects. Spellmaking is still a maybe. Brithsigns might be in in one form or another. Classes were arbitrary names. Make one up yourself. Apparel slots is only a few bits of armour, and if you've ever tried to make armour it's too much hassle to make them not clip. So they've chosen no clipping and less armour pieces as apposed to spending ages so things don't clip.

Clothing under armour again with the clipping issues.

We do not know how many different types of weapons and armour there will be. The only thing we know is no crossbows and no spears which isn't a huge huge loss. We do not know how run speed and jump height will be deteremined. You just plain made up invisible barriers.

I can tell there is no point in arguing with you, but if you want to live in the past and let what wasn't in Morrowind ruin Skyrim for you, then go ahead. It's your loss, and as soon as you can see past what your missing from your precious Morrowind then the more fun you'll have playing Skyrim.



But it was much much earlier than level 30-35 that most characters started to become similar.

Morrowind + Oblivion = Start different and converge on everyone being the similar.

Skyrim = Start similar and branch out so everyone can end up completely different.

I know which one I'd rather.

What I don't like is that they won't be adding customization at all.
They all seem to be very basic things you gain when leveling up a skill and won't define your character at all.

At least the Fallout perks like Cannibal made your character someone special, these perks are just upgrades for skills everyone is going to pick up anyway.
So now we have, no attributes, no classes, no interesting perks, in other words, no means of making any kind of interesting characters. Just bland and non-unique characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N84MmSrDawk sums up how I feel about this pointless issue.

I wont quote everyone but I am going to argue some statements.

Fallout 3 had perks sure.. But a lot of them were +5 to something which were regarded as boring, dull, counterproductive.
Any experienced gamer and any guide to fallout avoided those perks like a plague. :sadvaultboy:
They were useless and a lot of Skyrim perks will be the same.

People made predetermined lists which valuable perks like Strong Back, Commando, Finesse etc they will take on which level and in most cases they were also some random number.. There were only a few trully unique perks like Lawbringer or Mysterious stranger..

To the fact that having 100 light armor does not provide me with max light armor protection unless I take every perk is again :flamethrower:

I like perks where you choose what to specialize like one-handed and either sword, axe, mace.. As long as they don't insult my intelligence that swords can't make you bleed.
I like that I can choose to hold my breath (and even ranks for longer time) or zoom in with a bow or slow time or whatever they think off..
I even understand that I need to learn how to bash, before that bash can disarm and before I can charge.
And that I need block X to be able to do that.

I don't want to wait till the game is out because they won't fix it when it's out.
Voice the problem now and maybe just maybe they will change it.

Apart from the fact we haven't seen all the perks. And that you only have a choice of 50 out of 280+ perks so characters will be unique. :\

But thats what I mean.
Perks are a poor substitute.

255 spells is in no way equal to the millions upon millions of possible spells that spellmaking had, nor does it provide the feeling of being a proper mage.

Doomstones are not birthsigns.

Classes are important customisation and roleplaying elements. Removing them makes no sense.

Apparel slots is very important. This is an RPG, not a hack n slash.
I dont care about clipping. Use Morrowind style models, Morrowind had better graphics than Oblivion anyway.

The invisble barriers notion comes from playing fallout: new vegas. It also sported one boringly slow run speed, and one useless jump height and the way the world was built made full use of that. Lazy world design using invisible barriers and insurmountable objects to give the illusion of a larger world while in reality only being annoying. Now that was Obsidian, so I might be wrong, but the removal of attributes does not bode well for a truly open world.

Indeed, there is barely any point as I have made up my opinion and for now am sticking with it.
I am going to rent Skyrim when it comes out and give it an honest try.
And if I am wrong I will happily come on this forum, admit how wrong I was and eat humble pie.

Because I really truly hope I am wrong. I want this to be a good game.
I am just afraid it wont be, or at least, wont be an RPG.

I don't remember ever blocking 100% damage in Oblivion.

That is my fear as well... unfortunately I'm a min/maxer and it seems that they are removing that from Skyrim.

Skyrim is all about streamlining and removing the "thinking" from the game in lieu of more pew pew.

I have seen types of perks..
And I saw boring stat perks.
And I saw perks that made the skill itself questionable.
And I didn't like it.

At least your not totally close minded.

And New Vegas was overall a much better game than FO3 in my opinion.

And I see Beth on the road of doing the same mistakes with Skyrim as they did with FO3.
A lot of great stuff yes, but mistakes as well.

Which are?

On Morrowind graphics, I understand its a personal preference but it did sport visible clothing under armour, it did have unique models for soul gems and potions and the textures werent as day-glo.
I much prefer them over Oblivion's graphics wich may be of a newer generation, but as to detail and looks a step back.
Fat suits. 'Nuff said.

On spellmaking, I believe that the ability to create and tailor a spell to do what I want is a million times better than a developer telling me this it what it does, deal. It is the difference between exploring and being on a train. One is my choice, the other is on rails.

There are some bland perks? No [censored]!

There has to be some bland perks that you have to pick at the beginning, you cannot expect to get the elemental resistance right at the beginning.
This is how perks-trees work, first you get the bland ones, then the more and more interesting ones. It's called Progress.

Skills are the basic knowledge, how to block properly, how to hit harder. Perks are the specialization, how to block magic, how to hit with a sword in the precise point.
No matter how skilled you are in every weapon, if you don't know how to use an axe properly, you won't know how to cause severe bleeding.

But if you still think getting shield bash automatically at skill level 50 is more realistic, and raising some numbers that raise different numbers will make your character more uniqe, then I seriously can't help you.

I'd prefer that the bulk of your ability comes from skills and perks add flavor, special moves etc. But I'm willing to trust Bethesda. Besides, perks are some of the easiest things to mod.

I beg to differ;

First let's look at the things we have indeed lost:

Classes: nothing more than a label to group your major skills. So we lost a label, right. Is that a big thing? It diminishes your ability to roleplay a knight a mage or whatever so much?

Birthsigns: boosts that were either useless (the tower) or operpowered (the atronach). They were not even unique, since in Oblivion you could find stones that blessed you with them. Skyrim will have similar stones by the way.

Apparel slots and customization: yes, now you won't be able to equip an ebony gauntlet in one hand and an elven gauntlet in the other. Not sure why you wanted to do that but, anyway, you know that we'll have the smithing skill to customize weapons and armor so, there is a loss but also a gain.

Massive amount of spell effects: look, if there is something the majority of this forum agrees, is that magic in Skyrim has blown us away. And I'm not talking about spells being prettier and flashier (which is also true) but the whole "I can cast any spell in different ways" thing. This is, in my opinion, true versatility so forgive me if I take quality over quantity.

Huge amount of skills: so yes, we have lost things like athletics which did...what exactly? oh yes, it increased your stamina recovery rate when running. We also lost Mysticism...but wait, its spells are now merged in the other magic schools. Again man: you seem to be so concerned about labels and quantity.

Lots of weapons and armor: we have been told that there will be more weapons and armor than in Oblivion. If you mean that we have lost things like crossbows or medium armor, then yes, here I agree with you. It's a lost, and it's a pity we don't have those things back.

Now let's look at things we don't have enough info about...but you claim we already lost.

Spellmaking: don't know what will happen with it yet.

stunted or artificially hardcapped enchanting and alchemy: we don't even know how those skills will work in Skyrim and you already claim that they are "stunted" or "artificially hardcapped", are you from the future or what?

Open World: this was the best one. So now Skyrim will stop being an Open World? Todd himself said when commenting on the gameplay videos that we could go wherever we wanted. 'See the top of that mountain?' -he said. 'You can go there if you want'.

That's not the graphics. That's the developers spending the time to make more models. There is no denying, in any way shape or form that Oblivion had superior graphics to Morrowind. You can like Morrowinds more, but that doesn't make them better.

And it's not the difference between exploring and being on a train. It's the difference between being on a train, or being on a different train that's slightly to the left and a little bit slower.

Oblivion has better graphics overall, in my opinion, but if we're talking about the artistic direction, damn straight, Oblivion got nothing over Morrowind's. Nothing!

I differ in opinion on classes. They are an important customisation and roleplaying tool for me. They are an RPG staple, removing them in my opinion can only mean dumbing down.

I know there will be doomstones. But these are interchangeable. Again, what is removed is a tool for creating unique starting characters and this is dumbing down, because its only 'so that people dont regret it halfway through.'

Spellmaking: Levitation, jump, slowfall, teleportation, sanctuary, lock, sound, blind. 'Nuff said.

Massive amount of loss of skills = massive amounts of loss of skills. It doesnt matter that you thought them useless, I did not.
A lot of possible character builds have been removed, as well as a lot of customisation because of this.
Having one jump and run speed the entire game is positively boring and an invite to bad world design. (Insurmountable objects)

On enchanting and alchemy I was pointing out the difference between Morrowind - Oblivion. I do hope this time it will be better, but with the rumour that greaves have been removed, removing even more customisation, I dont have high hopes.
For all we know we find soul gems on enemies and have Sandal put em on our weapon. En-chantment.

On open world: The removal of acrobatics and speed has me very worried on this. We already saw some in Oblivion with the horrible, horrible oblivion realms where we had to traverse the same boring longwinded route every time, unless you glitched your acrobatics to jump past the insurmountable barriers.
One jump and run speed and no levitation seems to me an open invitation to nonsense like that, and a world with insurmountable objects that force me down a particular route is not open world.

perks are bad but they removed so much [censored] that they had to add something and conveniently added stuff from their previous game

Next time have some decency to read before you go into righteous mode.

I have NO problem with requirements, I have NO problem with ranks, I have NO problem with the concept.
The delivery is bad.

Take blocking.
If I take a shield in my hand with skill level 5 what should it mean for my ability to block:

1) My stamina is drained rapidly (enough starting stamina for ex. 3 blocks total and 10 sec to get it back for another) = the higher the skill, less stamina drain
2) there is a chance I will fail the block even though I have positioned the shield correctly and in time (check vs enemy weapon skill) blocking very little dmg or no dmg at all
3) even if I do everything right, my arm is still strained from the impact which results in minor (lets say 5%) dmg to my hp..

So with low skill I can't block for long or much, there is a chance I won't block at all and even if I do block I still take a bit of dmg.
Perks?

"Strong arm" your arm is now more used to constant beating, health loss by strain reduced to 3/1%
"Shield bash" you learn how to use your shield as a weapon, dealing dmg to your enemy (multiple ranks)
"Shield charge"
"Elemental block"
...

So at 100 block I am efficient at blocking dmg no matter what I do, but depending on my perks I am maybe also efficient at bashing, counterattacking or blocking magic attacks.

HAHAHA EPIC!!!

I don't get it. I go the threads about classes being removed and people are complaining about those being taken out because you can't have a character with inherent strengths and weaknesses. Then I come over to the perks thread and people are complaining that perks will give their characters inherent strengths and weaknesses.

It was a high percentage because I never took much damage when I blocked, maybe my DR was at 85 but even with it being low around 7 DR I still took off 50% of the damage.