.....................:facepalm:


Guess he missed the part where I said -My- Characters, lawl its my fault? side stepping your run around post, its not the directers fault that the Resources at Hand to not add up to his vision...and like I SAID your ROLEPLAYING doesnt fully translate into game or is recognized....I didnt say Roleplaying in general is base...I said the game doesnt recognize it so using it as a Foundation for Arguments sake is folly

no, I didn't. You said "I disagree, my characters are not me" and I responded like above. Stating that these characters of yours are being directed by you because, of course, they still belong to you. So it is you who missed what I said (in it's entirety)

So...now your telling me the way I Roleplay isnt Roleplay?...Honest question

What are you even saying there, that the game does not allow one to roleplay, if so then that is completely flawed because it does nothing, but allow you to role play even if you don't even realize you are you still end up doing it.

In order to roleplay you HAVE to assume a role, it's fundamental and unchangeable. If you do not assume a role you are not roleplaying.

So...because Skyrim doesn't let me fully realize what its like to be a 17th Deadric prince as I envision it or even remotely similar that gives me something to base that off of in game...its flawed?


Yes...My Characters are assuming a Role in game...the one I dictate form them within reason...I don't give my characters my name and say hey thats me in there...

That wouldn't be within the parameters of the game, a system is designed by and used by a DM which leads you through a game in this case the DMs are the Devs. If you want a new system you will have to get a new DM in this case Modders, who will modify the game to fit that play style and let you play your "7th Deadric prince". Basic roleplaying fundamentals.

That's like saying "My my size barbie is a seductress when she's roleplaying" Really it can't happen, why because she can't make that choice. Your character isn't taking on an artificial role it's the player that's taking on the role the character is the role that is being assumed. It's like those sci-fi shows where your brain can get transfered to a new body, that is what it's like to role play.

Yes perks are good there is nothing wrong with it, but they are not replace for attributes or starting traits (Birthsigns is example of trait, but races is somewhere is example of starting trait) they addition layer or of RPG mechanic, and actual adding of perks can maker starting class choose actually mean something.
I don't see actual reason why perks can be replace of such parameters while they have different application layer and cannot replace fundamentals as someones think, they are not replace even more they can work in synergy with attributes and classes.

280 perks is 15 perks per skill but there is confirmed thats certain skills will have more perks certain less, as well leveled perks is also included in thats number so there can be even less chooses as you think, don't be over hyped until you play the game first, there is too many uncertain things like will leveled perks have additional new effects on each level or be just simple magnitude increase of previous effects.
Also Oblivion have 84 perks 13 traits from Birthsigns 10 traits from races and great number of various powers granted to player in various ways like quest and stones.


How you decide thats your character is have class when warrior starts game at the same way as mage does?
What help you in definition of your way when all characters start with the same opportunity as all other commoners, there is only imagination help you create difference, in such cases why need create NPC schedules when we can just imagine thats NPC has daily activity?

So there will be not large tutorial again to kernel our specialization by fast leveling of skills and learning basic spells as well collecting starting equipment similar to Oblivion one but only in difference thats you out with increased level and chosen path, and test your chosen specialisation without of suffering of wrong decision on first levels, before you start actual game thats can be not are dungeon but maybe small town what you arrive after escaping execution what will teach basic features like movements.

Besides Paladin is high ranked member of certain knightly orders similar to Archmage of Mage guild.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Factions
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Imperial_Knights
So more likely you start as knight and then need to join certain faction to be Paladin, or you need imagine thats your warrior with skills in blunt sections and shield section and learn some tricks in restoration.will be Paladin, besides does some one will actually notice thats you are Paladin and say it to you or will reacts in different way?
I hope requirements will return so no all quest will be available until you prove that you actually skilled to do them so barbarians will not become Archmages and lead mage guild.
So to be actually paladin need to join certain knightly order level and need to do quest to increase fraction disposition as well raise appropriate skill and only after this receive next rank.

Number of possibilities will be limited if game will not allow create and use starting traits or create and edit perks, they will be nice golden cage for your imagination like unique spells thats doesn't have possibility to edit or create new ones at last in CS, there is can be persons who likes golden cages, but I'm not from them and I believe I'm not alone who share such opinion.

So...Skyrims Flawed because I can't roleplay a 17th Deadric prince right? thats what I asked.....lol your dancing around every statement really.... essentially your saying the way I roleplay isnt roleplay...when even Roleplay isnt clearly defined....I told you My characters, My is possessive as in it belongs to me and do as I will it...I play female characters too..but Im not going to suddenly think like a Female, but my Char will act as accordingly from my perceptions. and these traded posts do not stomp one thing


That Skill perks do not "enhance" roleplayer, an Inherent effect that should occur I.E axes making characters bleed shouldnt need a perk to occur...if my character uses axe's from day one...and is in the middle of the game but can't make NPC's bleed because he doesnt have the perks what kind of Enhancement is "all of a sudden I can now make chars bleed"

We will then have to agree to disagree then. As I've explained my position fully I believe you're wrong, and you believe I'm wrong, so we can leave it at that.

.....But you didnt answer anything >_>..................You gave undercutting responses and mockery examples >_>......all I said was....I disagree roleplaying shouldnt be the sole reasoning for anything since while you can imagine all you want, the games not going to recognize or fully realize your intents, and where a axe that should make people bleed because of its nature can't until you get Perks is not roleplay enhancement..

Maybe in the world of nirn people don't normally bleed from such things. Once again, the DM decides.

..................


ok...yeah....k

At this point, I'm assuming the Perks will be like FO3 and FNV. You have to have a certain skill and/or level requirement on some Perks, could be most Perks, to select the Perk. There are many without a skill or level requirement. I think the way it works is fine and if they've changed the system, I'll have to decide after I've seen it. I love Perks. It's always hard to decide which to take but there are always a few that are a given at the beginning of the gaime....like in FO3/FNV, there's Comprehension that gives double points for reading skils books or Educated which gives you additional skill points to allocate at Level-up. I don't know how it will work in Skyrim or what we'll have but I agree with Todd that it's more fun when you level to select a Perk. I wonder if we'll have something like Black Widow? That one's definitely for role-playing.

:tes:

Todd Howard Skyrim interview Nerdtrek:Within each of these skills, there are perks. They’re perks, but they’re not like Fallout, in that each skill has its own perk tree.Take one handed for instance. You have a one handed skill, and then you can perk that. There’s a skill tree underneath one handed. And within that there are separate perk areas for maces, and then axes, and then swords. So as opposed to having say an axe skill, that is a part of the perk tree within one handed. It gives us a better balance. You can say “Well I like one handed stuff,” and then you can start specializing as you raise that skill.”



http://nerdtrek.com/skyrim-details/



so no no Blackwidow, Cannabalism or general perks PERKS ARE FOR SKILLS

Let me try.

"After countless battles with my axe, I realized that attacking specific parts on my enemies were causing more bleeding. I will focus on those locations from now on to cause heavy bleeding on them."

Heavy bleeding [Intelligence perk]

Don't...dont encourage him Vtastek...... I've a Bud who Clears trees and does logging, theres no two ways about Axes making someone bleed......unless they have armor They are going to bleed Profusely...period.

:P But really, with the knowledge of main arteries' locations, you can cause heavy bleeding as opposed to normal bleeding. It is cool.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toiIz1kjwjw. :teehee: )

http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/75719/Pictures%20Library/Cardiovascular%20system/The%20aorta%20and%20main%20arteries%20of%20the%20limbs.jpg

I did not break my character. You are missing my point. The fun in sneaking isn't only in its effects, but in the thrill of knowing what might happen if you fail. Killing enemies in a sneaky way is but a small part of sneaking. Sneaking is primarily to avoid fights -- at least, prolonged ones --- and to avoid bounties (among other things). Getting caught happens, though. It is supposed to happen; it is why stealh characters are not automatically gifted with permanent invisibility. Having no risk at all is boring.

A warrior is not what the character is supposed to be regardless of how often he -- willingly or not -- acts the warrior. The game rules may say otherwise, so according to those rules you are correct. Such character development is simplistic at best and entirely unnatural at worst. A fellow can head out to the golf course and hack around day afer day without becoming a Tiger Woods for doing it. He isn't even guaranteed to become half-way decent golfer for it. A sneak hemmed in by foes wielding clubs and blades is not suddenly going to adopt the mindset of a disciplined fighter. He is not going to be recalling his sparring lessons with his blade instructor and start exercising those lessons. He is not going to be studying and remembering his opponent's techniques so he can meditate on them later, and train himself to counter them, and grow as a warrior. If he survives, his first and foremost thought is going to be to try to avoid being caught the next time. If he survives, then whatever undisciplined methods he used to survived worked, so why would it even cross his mind to improve upon them? Just don't get caught. Simple. Don't fight better; sneak better.

I do remember that interview and I guess I'm still hoping there will be other kinds of Perks too. Wasn't it said there were 180 or 280 Perks in all? Please correct if I'm wrong but I'm thinking there has to be a lot of stuff in there and there could still be non-weapon type Perks. Fingers crossed.

:tes:

Your example doesn't make sense either. If you are so bad at sneaking that you kept getting detected, why should you get to become better at sneaking than fighting? If you don't want to fight, run away until they give up, then try sneaking again. If you kill people head-on in hand-to-hand combat, and lived, then you gained fighting experience because you didn't die. There is nothing casual about a fight to the death; if your character killed a dozen people in combat, that's more battle experience than most people in real life ever will get.

You are what you do. Your consolation is that you don't have to put any perks in combat if you don't want to, if you want to insist your character is a character who refuse to be a warrior no matter how much he acts like one.
This remind me of a fantasy D&D-style TV show with the main character who has Barbarian stats, but insisted on being a mage because of his heritage. He svcked at spell casting, kept beating up goblins with his bare hands, but still insists that he is a mage, really.

Wrong. There are at least two fundamental approaches to "roleplaying," and one of them is that the character you are "playing" in the game is actually a separate individual who has his/her own life and is in no way, shape or form a projection of yourself.

You might want to take your condescending misperception of what constitutes "actually roleplaying" over to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1082413-roleplaying/ thread, then to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1185185-roleplaying-2/ one - its successor - and read a bit and educate yourself, rather than hurling uninformed condemnation at many people who simply approach the game differently than you do.

Well I do disagree with you on roleplaying, mainly because I don't believe there can be an innocent bystandard approach, but you are right about one thing. That is those threads you listed is a place to discuss that topic not here. Also you misunderstand me if you believe I'm being condescending, it's difficult to understand a persons tone online, I meant absolutely no offense in anything I said, if I did offend I do apologize. (probably the first time that's happened on the forums) Now back to the topic!

With whatever your belief on roleplaying is do you think perks would enhance it (that being the issue)

You know I'll actually take that back. You are right there are two ways. One just seems absolutely foreign to me when applied to Skyrim, the one where the character isn't you assuming the role would be how one almost always plays a linear RPG the one where you usually assume a role is in PNP and the elder scrolls, also in the wizardry series. I suppose someone could also play a more freeform RPG that way too, I just can't imagine it. To play that way, in my opinion, you'd need boundaries all around you, I just can't see it in a freeform style.