So since perks are now linked to special stats requirements and we have only 28 stat points to start the game with, do you think Bethesda will still have level requirements on the perks?

I mean the Sniper Perk requires a nine Perception (at least it is on row nine under Agility of the Perk Chart found on the wall of the garage).

If my Sole Survivor take a nine Perception at start, he will have an average of a three in all his other Special Stats.

That is a real commitment so why should he have to wait till level 12 to take it?

After all we already know the Sole Survivor is a vet.

On a side note I'm assuming that the old skill requirements will be replaced by perk requirements of some kind where appropriate.

So maybe you have to have rating one in the Commando perk before you can get the Sniper perk.

Or have rating one in both the Science perk and the Demolition Expert before you can take Mad Bomber.

Interesting point. They could make it based solely on special. If it's like Skyrim you will have to get certain perks before you can get the better ones. I didn't even think of that though. Smart! Doesn't matter to me tho as long as it's balanced ok. Which would probably be hard if every perk was open based off special.

Perk chart info at http://tamrielvault.com/group/fallout-character-building/forum/topics/perks-chart-news

I think it will be pretty self balancing since you only start with 28 Special Stats.

There being 1 perk for each stat level so ten perks per Special Stat and a total of 70 perks (at least till the DLC is released).

You start with 28 stat points which means you can access 28 out of the 70 stats available.

That means 42 of the perks are not available because you don't have a high enough Special stat.

Each increase in your special Stat gives you access to another perk.

So lets look at where you are with just your starting stats.

Say a third of the perks you can access have four ranks (say 9).

To get all the perks would take 28 perk points and to get the extra ranks is (9 * 3 = 27) 27 more perk points.

That means you have to be level 55 to get all of just the perks you started with access to.

Figure between stat bobbleheads and cyberware you can increase each stat by two.

So add the 14 to 28 and your Special Stat total is 42.

So there are 42 perks available now.

I also assume there will the Intensive Training Perk but every special stat you increase that way is one less perk you have to spend on what perks you have access to.

The Sole Survivor would have to have well over a hundred levels to max out his stats and get even close to having most of the perks.

There are a HUGE number of assumptions being made about a highly fuzzy image here....

We KNOW the perks have different tiers and none of the assumptions I have seen seem to take those into effect at all.

Totally agree, but it helps pass the time till 11/10/15!

So to continue to speculate, seven Special stats with 10 perks under each stat for a total of 70 perks.

One per for each point of stat.

They want to make Special stats matter and they are combining skills in to perks.

So how do you do that?

Well make the special stats have a greater effect on game mechanics which they have done.

How else can we make Special stats important?

Plus we can't limit perks by having a required skill level before you can get the perk.

What if you put a Stat requirement on every perk that would make your Special stats matter more.

Want Grim Reaper's Sprint then you need a get a nine Luck.

Want Hacker then you have to have a four Intelligence.

Then you take the perk again a few times to show you are a more experienced Hacker.

In F3 there were a lot of ways to increase stats which is good, but often players were getting a lot of stat increases.

Just reduce the starting number of Special Stats.

Players can increase their stats, but won't max out as fast.

And this will lower the number of perks available.

This causes the PC to have to specialize more.

Getting more stat points now increases your stats AND lets you have access to more powerful perks.

So Win/Win.

Plus you have more options and choices which leads to better roleplaying.

@cndblank. I like the idea you just put out there. If I'm understanding you right your saying all perks have multiple lvls? I hope not personally. I like everything else though.

They're never going to make 9 luck, or 9 anything, a perk requirement. That's insane.

If it's the New Vegas version of the sniper perk, that could be explained by the fact that soldiers aren't trained to make headshots.

I hope so, otherwise you could get powerful perks incredibly early. On the one hand that's a reward for specializing, the other it breaks the game. I definitely can't wait to find out what it's going to be.

The Gun Nut, Hacker, and Science Perks have been confirmed to have multiple ranks.

How so?

Au contraire. After seeing the reduction of SPECIAL points we're given and how they seem to want us to specialize I wouldn't be surprised at all to see multiple perks with a very high requirement as further incentive to specialize.

I'm betting that Sniper, Gunslinger, Commando which seems to be replacing the gun and energy weapon skills and the like will now have multiple ranks.

We know there are perks that can make VATS very powerful.

This is just speculation, but they might have them do more than just increase your chance to hit in VATS.

For example the Sniper perk might also let you zoom in more.

The Commando Perk might reduce the recoil of automatic weapons.

The Gunslinger perk might let you fire faster which is very useful for pistols.

The more perks you have relating to the weapon you are currently using, the better you are with the weapon in game.

I think not having to wait till level 12 or level 20 or what ever is a more than fair trade.

During the E3 presentation the player had the science perk available to him for crafting energy weapons. however according to the theory that you need special to corelate to perks it would be impossible for the player to have science because if we go with that theory you need 9 intelligence to get the perk but the player had put 3 into intelligence if i remember correctly.

He was at 3 int during thethe inrto scene, you forget it was not one continuous gameplay reel, and they could have had various SPECIAL stats throughout.

Not to mention we are likely to get a SPECIAL point every few levels or so.

What makes you think they want us to specialize to that degree?

Given that Skyrim's system was made to do just that, what makes you thing they want something else for Fo4?

The highest SPECIAL requirement in Fallout history is an 8, and this game is not going to be more restrictive in that respect than New Vegas was. You have got to be kidding me if you think the perk chart is predicting how many points you're going to need.

I have to agree with this. Everyone is talking about the tiers of the perk chart like they've been confirmed to represent SPECIAL prerequisites, but this is pure speculation. If anything, I think that the tiers would more likely represent level requirements.

SPECIAL prerequisites might exist on a perk-by-perk basis like they did before, but I don't think they'll be as rigid as is being suggested.

We know from the Perk Chart that Hacking in on row four of Intelligence (has a programmer I'll not comment on that).

Row five is Comprehension.

So I'm thinking Science will be on row six.

That is plenty smart enough to run a test tube or mod a laser pistol without being Albert Einstein.

I figure the perks for Intelligence 7 through 10 will be pretty powerful.

Past Fallout's also had skill requirements, Fo4 doesn't.

The tradeoff of higher SPECIAL requirements is no skill requirements. Overall, its no more or less restrictive, just restrictive in a different way.

I'd rather they didn't have level requirements. At times, it could force you to choose a perk that you weren't interested in, even though you already met the requirements. I'm okay with the perk I want being locked behind another, related perk, but a level limit just doesn't feel right.

I'd rather there not be any perks locked behind other perks. I much prefer taking any perk I want, provided I meet the requirements. Level limits make sense from a balance perspective.

I agree that level limits made sense in F3 and FONV.

But skills have been merged with perks so it is stat and perk requirements or nothing.

So if there are new Special stat requirements for Fallout 4 based on the Perk Chart should we still have level requirements on top of that?

I agree about locking perks behind other perks, but there ares several perks where a good case can be made.

For example having the Mad Bomber perk need rank one of Demolition Expect perk and one of Science perk makes perfect sense.

You can't be a mad bomber making your own explosives unless you know some thing about explosives and some thing about chemistry.

The same for having Nuka-Cola Chemist needing a 7 intelligence and rank 2 of the Science Perk.

Nuka-Cola was invented by a genus and expert chemist so anyone trying to recreate it needs to be almost as good.