You said luck was useless, it isn't. You said personality was useless, it isn't. You dont seem to understand strength and agility represented X, while weapon skill represented Y.

Does not matter. The physical form of the spell is a small ball filled with energy. We don't know if the area of effect spells will be blockable, but I have hardly ever seen an NPC use it in Oblivion. Also the rock/paper/scissors or warrior/mage/stealth or tank/wizzard/archer are mostly MMORPG elements. I dunno if you ever played Fable for example, one of the best RPGs ever, but at the end of the game you were basically warrior+mage+archer in one with all the resistances and everything. There are many other RPG's like that. I don't see what is wrong with it being used in this one. Majority of causual gamers I know like to feel overpowered in singleplayer RPG games. I am sure that if you will [censored] enough someone will make a mod to solve this.
It does not matter anyways. The perks are still changing. Example in the E3 demo one of the block perks was:
-Chance to disarm when powerbashing.

In the quakecon demo it changed to:
-Able to move faster with a shield raised.

The game is still being adjusted. They want to satisfy the majority. Someone has to be disapointed.

No, its not. The archetypes are fantasy RPG elements in general, not MMO. Fable, good RPG? :rofl:

Yeah, I will really miss athletics and acrobatics. It was far more enjoyable to be unencumbered and free of the horse, running as fast and jumping as high as my skills would allow.

So?



That is no so obvious to me. I do see a lot of people that do not care either way. The largest group seems to be of the "I have to play it first" variety. There is a large group that is of the the "Beth did it so it must be right" persuasion. I also see a lot of people that have no idea what they are talking about. There also is a forth group that openly support any news that is pro-Beth, cut and paste talking points, and rage against anyone that says anything contrary. There are quite a few that fall in between those four categories.



Is it egocentric to have an opinion? Should I just be a good lad, keep quiet, and just do what the group does? :turned:




That's part of the issue at hand. You and the "many others" you speak of would be singing the praises even if every one of my concerns were not present. Nothing I (we) argue for impacts the casual bash and slasher in any way.



:rofl:

Luck only raised every skill by a small amount, and effected gambling in the arena, which i forgot even existed until i looked up what luck was. Personality increased disposition and decrease failure at haggling, both of which are what speechcraft and barter affect. Strength determined when you become encumbered, overall melee damage, and along with other attributes, fatigue. Agility determined damage from bows, chance of being staggered, and along with other skills as well, fatigue. These are all covered by perks/skills in game, except for maybe staggering, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Fable 1 is considered on of the best RPGs ever made by most people who played it.

Luck did more than that, and did even more in previous ES games, effecting all chance (minus loot). Personality=/=speechcraft and did things that speechcraft didnt.

Well, since you provided no evidence or examples of what luck or personality actually did, then it's safe to say you're full of [censored], And I'm using Oblivion as a stepping stone because that was the last game with attributes in it.

How inrealistick is that everyone runs with the same speed? Even when they got the same equipment on wich will affect movement, people would still run/move with their own individual speed.

There is no excuse for why these skills got cut-out.

No, Ive just played all the games, and know what the attributes did. The info is easy to look up, I dont need to sit here and write a long winded explanation for the people that didnt know what attributes did, or represented. Not to mention we've all done it countless times since they announced attributed were removed.

"Most people who played it" would be referring to casual console RPers who never touched a PC game in their life, right?

Rock paper scissors mechanics are for multiplayer only. Why? because, if a warrior comes across a mage, he won't be able to get past it without being a thief, which would mean you'd have to restart as a thief, but then how would you get past the warriors? well, get your frie- OH WAIT ELDER SCROLLS IS 1 PLAYER

I think the entire notion of perks replacing anything is fundamentally flawed.

Perks should be bonuses - specialized abilities on top of regular talent and skill - not replacements for either one.

To me, it's really quite simple and straightforward - you start with a character with particular talents and abilities - attributes. That character goes out in the world and does whatever it is that s/he does, and develops ability at the things s/he does - skills. And when those abilities reach high enough levels, s/he learns new techniques and tricks pertaining to those abilities - perks. The three should work together, each representing a different aspect of character development and each contributing to the sum of the character's abilities.

I think the entire idea of perks substituting for other aspects of character development is wrongheaded, and I'd be willing to predict right now that that's one of the things which Beth is going to end up regretting and promising won't return in TES VI, sort of like level scaling is to Oblivion.

:facepalm: No, again, you've played ES games before right? These mechanics have been a staple in not only ES, but many fantasy RPGs. Its the reason behind inherit strengths and weaknesses, and BUILDS.

Agreed.

QFT :thumbsup:

I know what the attributes did save for Agility, and I know they are rather arbitrary. I played all the games too. Well, actually, that's a lie, I've only played Arena, Dagerfall, MW, and OB. I was using OB because it'll be closest out of them all to Skyrim. You're just not listening to reason, whenever I tell, no, whenever I PROVE to you how useless attributes are, you just tell me "no that's not all they did" without even showing me what exactly there was more to attributes. And you want to know why you didn't show me what more there is to attributes? Well, simply put, you can't. And why can't you? Even more simply put, there is nothing more to attributes.

Your posts say otherwise. Seriously, just go to the UESP and look it up. Not sure why you didnt do that in the first place. Im not going to sit here and write out what every attribute effected through every TES game.

Sometimes I feel like 90% of the reason people don't like perks is because Bethesda stupidly called them that. There more like... skill trees.

There that sounds better doesn't it :yes:

On another note I don't like the removal of certain skills because ruins other peoples experience who wanted to use a character that uses them. The "skill trees" are a different thing however and I don't think you can fairly compare them.

I wish everybody was as empathetic, we'd certainly have better games.

On the block perk its elemental resistance not magic resist.. nad we dont know how effective it is.. If you get hit by life leech your out of luck...

So how are we supposed tp improve our carrying capacity limit? (Encumbance)

That still doesnt make any sense to me. Not sure how being good at blocking helps against a frost trap, or flamethrower, or a Shock Aura.

It would be your argument that's invalid. What is annoying is people who only have one answer to any problem "Oh, leave it out then". If mankind made a habit out of that instead of improving on things, we'd sill be playing with sticks and rocks.



And I hate it when people think that if something happens solely in their head, they're actually playing the game. Talk about fooling yourself.