An excellent point and something I had not thought of. This better not be the same for all characters.

raised at level up through stamina, or fatigue, or whatever they're calling it these days, most likely. There will be things to choose at level up that are not skill tree perks. Some sort of other "perk" type mechanic attached to the three attribute derivatives that are left.

Exactly.



Exactly!



WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! :shocking:

gpstr, there is too much logic and spreadsheetyness to this post.



Hopefully.

So your saying that when we level up, we will upgrade our attributes, choose a perk, and then get another option to upgrade our character?

That's what I figure. Some sort of attribute derivative choice at level up, thats separate from skill tree perks.

And again the "Why fix it when we can just cut it out?" argument. Stone age, here we come...



Funny how you always know trying to fix things will end badly. I just hope you don't produce any products....

I hope you guys do realize that perks are not replacing skills altogether, right? Skills are still in, perks are really just the extra bonus (why else would we still be levelling skills?)

Your right this is the best possible solution

In all fairness though while this would be ideal the devs do have limited time. And while I would prefer if they started out by putting that in, I unfortunately can't control the devs.

Where do you think I got the information on all the attributes I was explaining were useless? In fact, the information on the UESP rather support my claims, seeing as they don't include why attributes are important, other than what's already in Skyrim. Seriously, the effects of Attributes are in game, just under different guises. But wait, you need your hand held and pointed directly to where they were, right?

Yes, more or less, on level up you will be able to choose one perk, and then choose to raise Encumbrance, Health, Magicka, and Fatigue.

No. :cryvaultboy:

Reread some things? Because your "Luck was dumb and didnt do anything other than raise skills" is flat wrong. Your "Personality was useless becasue it only raised skills and is the same as speechcraft" is flat out wrong. You dont know if everything attributes covered are in the game through perks either. And with everything they've announced and things they've cut, its pretty obvious that perks wont totally replace the missing attributes and skills.

These are straight from the UESP:

"Personality is the governing attribute for Mercantile, Speechcraft, and Illusion. It affects the Disposition of NPCs and Creatures, increasing Disposition by 1 point for every 4 point increase in Personality. Therefore, Personality allows your character:
To more easily obtain meaningful information from NPCs.
To obtain better prices from merchants through haggling.
To avoid combat more often. Fewer aggressive beings will attack you and more will accept yields."

"In addition to modifying skill levels, Luck probably influences most situations where the game randomly determines events. Confirming the role of luck in changing probability is difficult, because in most cases the details are hidden within the game engine. However, there are a couple cases where scripts make use of the player's luck:
When betting in the Arena, your luck controls the initial health of the gladiators, improving your chance of winning.
Luck determines the chance that striking an opponent with Mehrunes Razor will result in Daedric Banishing.
Luck does not have any impact on what loot you will receive from containers or other leveled lists."

"Agility is the governing attribute for Marksman, Security, and Sneak. It affects:
Chance to avoid being 'staggered' by enemy attacks.
Damage delivered by bows (see The Complete Damage Formula).
Fatigue = Agility + Endurance + Strength + Willpower"

I could go on, but like you say, I won't sit here and list all of what the attributes do

Yeah, and thats from Oblivion only, and is still more than what you said they did, not to mention the things that are not listed in the UESP attributes section, like being able to wield a weapon in front of the Uni with a high personality. plus personality cant be perks in speechcraft without losing variables, and options since personality can be independent of speechcraft.

Luck should be expanded on Fallout style, specifically NV. It was similer to this in previous ES games before Oblivion. With luck effecting everything from hit chance to potion effectiveness. Most of the previous effects can be implemented or reworked to fit in. The only reason they removed attribute was so the game would appeal to a wider audience. people that thought attributes were somehow too complicated.

There have been a few posts in this thread that bordered on personal insults.

Keep it civilized and respectful, please.

I said yes because I'm not going to be one of the negatives like most of you are. (not all of course) :tongue:

I don't understand why people are so worried over losing skills. In Oblivion, you could really only use your 7 main skills anyway.

....



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:confused:


....

Are you sure?

Ok, first off, I don't care about the previous games, I played them, I enjoyed them, but they're done, and Oblivion is the most current game, I'm thinking of the current ES and how it's moving forward, and we all know Beth won't just suddenly go back to Arena style gameplay. And I can not stress this enough, it is not more than what I said, why? Because you nor the wiki can prove it. Seriously, stop saying that there is more to the attributes when you can not prove it, and then tell me to go look up the attributes to see what more they do. Because I did that, I even brought back what the wiki told me, the wiki you told me to go to, and even then it just supports my argument.

And just to clear up any bias, I don't agree with everything Beth does. I loved Vampires and Werewolves (although was disappointed by werewolves being in DLC only for MW) I don't agree with Acrobatics removal or spell making removal, although Acrobatics didn't bother me as much. And finally, I was really disappointed for the fusion of greave and chest, it was fun, especially in MW, to look BA in nothing but greaves, boots, one pauldron, gloves, and a helmet.

I love how this thread turned into a "Perks vs Skills" thread into a "perks vs attributes" thread.

OT: Well depends on the skills. If it is h2h and learning that we can have bar fights at the bar without killing I don't care for it. In plus, 280+ seems a lot to diverse a person in the game since we can only have a miniscule of what there is. We don't even know what the perks consists of for right now.

Why else would we be levelling skills? I think it would be rather pointless that Beth would include skills that have no use, don't you? Perks, like that guy said, are just bonuses for when you level your character, not your skill.

I guess thats why Beth is bringing back some mechanics from previous games before Oblivion then. Ive already proven that there are more to attributes than you said, then you yourself quoted the UESP and proved your previous statement wrong. theres no reason to even reply to me, since you haven't shown to me at all that you know what your talking about, so we'll agree to disagree.

I dont think it actualy works that way I think WHEN you block you get that resist. In fact I wouldnt be shocked if it only works vs enchanted weapons that you make a sucsessful block against.

skills are till in. attributes are out. :twirl:

i prefer fallout to TES anyways so im a bit biased but i love perks and im glad they added them to skyrim.

Woooo.... Skills being redundant and all, I was starting to get worried.