Ok people who like grounded characters who, if they want to move real fast, can spend points in stamina and outrun opponents tactically = My preference
Bouncing around like a fairy and moving real fast because your speed and acrobatics is up high by default = your preference

See, I can figure out those mechanics that you are going for, and understand what they mean, but I don't agree that that makes a better game system or a smarter system. Does not mean that I, or anybody else who prefers it that way is prefering "dumb" games, they would just rather have the game work out a better system than what is according to their own fancies.

That is all.

Bypassing a handful of quests is a bigger deal than you think. I mean, people in Morrowind were able to beat the game in what, 10 minutes? you're not skipping 10+ hours, your skipping the entire game, and it's harder than you think to make a game balanced with levitation.

The bold is totally lore friendly (minus the default thing, since nobodies stats were high by default), yours isn't. In fact it would go against lore. Not to mention the numerous builds that can be based around H2H. And since when did the fallacy that sprinting longer=Faster speed? It doesnt, never have and never will.

Lemme just put it this way...

What do I want to see from perks?

For example, what if axes did inferior damage across the board, but had the ability to knock your opponent down. Meanwhile, swords could continue having the superior damage output, but would svck against armored foes, whereas maces excel against armored foes in exchange for being none too special against unarmored ones. What you've done is seperated the weapons into two categories: one that's purely offensive and one that's more defensive. The offense is the split into two sub groups: one for if you want to be able to kill common foes quickly, another for if you're more focused on the tough fights and not so much on overall kill speed.

What if axes had perks that encouraged power attacks by providing them with a damage bonus (and possible knockdown effect) whereas swords encouraged rapid swings by providing you with perks that increased crit rate and added a base damage amount (say 10 more damage) onto every swing? What if two handed weapons had an area-of-effect perk that allowed them to hit multiple opponents with a single swing? What if heavy armor had vastly superior defense and provided you with perks to even increase your magic resistance in heavy armor or even a % chance to resist poison, whereas light armor provided you with perks that increased your crit rate, decreased the enemy's chance to crit you, provided you with a speed bonus, and gave you the ability to roll and dodge as acrobatics once did?

What if marksmanship perks meant the difference between being able to zoom in or not, the difference between being able to knockdown or not, and one increased the stealth of your shots?



These are the kinds of perks I want to see: these make each playthrough unique. Suddenly axes provide offensive defense whereas swords do not. Suddenly two-handed weapons are better for group fights than one handed ones, and suddenly light armor and swords are an absolute must for an assassin, who'll need the crits and speed. But judging by the ones I see so far, these probably won't happen. So far the ones we've seen have been very generic or seemingly pointless (I don't care what you say, bleed will undoubtedly be inferior to a sword's superior DPS), or where we see the promise of a good and unique perk, we see nothing preventing EVERY type of player from grabbing it in light of the other bad ones.


We'll see I guess. We have no info to go off of as of now. I just worry that, these are the same guys that split Blade and blunt into two different skills, then gave them the same "perks" in Oblivion, or that these are the same guys who struggled to provide FO3 with perks that actually seperated the different playstyles from one another. These are the guys who's perks affected Energy weapons and guns alike in FO3, allowing anyone to use either of the two, while Heavy Weapons didn't even get a single perk.

I'm sure that whole "lore friendly" stuff will still pertain ingame. Like, for example this ring of super speed will just increase sprint speed by 20% or whatever, but running faster because I ran into a wall for 90 minutes isn't lore friendly, not even realistic actually

Yes it is. Nirn residents have the natural ability to do these things, they dont need magic.

hmmm....you assume this same argument has not already been done dozens of times already....



You've been repeating Beth talking points. That's not facts.



Oh thanks!

As to your broken dungeon design....not all areas of the game world need to have levitate "turned on." Things like this should be able to be done with simple explanations (ie, the rocks in this dungeon resonate with the power of Akatosh's sneezes and make levitate impossible!)

Include balancing, such as:

- NPCs smart enough to shoot up (which I assume is in as we have freaking dragons)
- permanent area "enchants" that gimp levitate in certain areas (which would be obvious defenses in a world where levitate exists)
- NPCs with ranged weapons in areas where levitate can be abused
- NPCs that can levitate
- flying baddies (like freaking dragons!)....

@admoni
All you do is [censored] about this. You have yourself not presented a single idea that would even mildly be better than the developers idea. I think that this system is much better. Why have skills such as athlethics and acrobatics in the game? Everybody is going to be running and jumping and everyone is going to be choosing them therefore. The new system provides more customization than the previous one imo. What did you get from leveling up skills before? Nothing really. It did not make the game any more exciting and I honestly never felt like something was making me want to level the skills up. If you will be given combos or nice finishing moves it will satisfy me much more. The new system is much more user friendly in my opinon. Back in oblivion it was all about "Your marksman skill is now higher level. You deal more damage." Whenever I saw that I was just thinking oh man why can I not get rewarded in a better way? I always wished for things like being able to shoot two arrows for example or better moves with sword.
Now it might be possible. For example in the quakecon demo that we has been leaked I noticed 2 of the perks in block tree. One of them says "Able to do power bash with shield" which seems like it could be somehting cool and the other one said "Time slows down when blocking power attack"
Stuff like this will definatelly make the game more fun and immersive. I will take this over oblivion system any day.

From what we've seen, perks are exactly like that. Archery, you can pick perks to zoom in, knock down enemies, better stealth crits, faster draws, stronger draws, more accuracy, and probably more (last three were just made up, but they seem likely) As for 1H perks, I know for a fact that the perks concentrate on axes/maces/swords, as well as overall 1H uses, but yeah, I hope they do concentrate on specific weapon perks (axes knockdown, maces do better against armor) and for 2H, I know it's the same idea, the first perk is overall better damage with 2H and then goes into weapon specific perks (I actually think 2H is where stuff like knockdowns go into effect, i.e. the 2H hammer perk has a knockdown chance)

No. The perks are small upgrades to the skills they belong to. They don't replace anything.

Archery I would expect good perks regardless. It's just a unique playstyle, so it's easy to come up with unique perks. It's the similar weapon types (axes/maces/swords) that will be harder to make unique, and that's why I get worried when I see them advertising axes with....[censored] bleed. Why not just advertise them with bonus damage to mudcrabs ffs...

Do you know that 2H get knockback or are you speculating? Cause what I've seen is the generic damage increases.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize using what was given to us by the only people who have been making this game doesn't count as facts, because, you know, they're the only ones that know the most about the game they're making.

and for your list:

1. NPCs probably already have this ability anyways, doesn't mean it works (No npc in any game is perfect)
2. That'd be similar to invisible walls, and everyone would then complain about how useless levitation is now, and then when beth takes levi out again, everyone will start complaining again
3. This is basically the same argument as 1.
4. Do you know how difficult this would be? maybe not in an open environment, but the AI is broken enough in-game, and it's not as easy to fix as you think
5. Well, no argument here, you already mentioned dragons, and besides, the point of fighting a dragon is supposed to be an epic boss battle, not some cat and mouse game where you're floating around trying to chase the dragon, which we all know it would end up to be. Also, stop saying this argument has been brought up before, but then completely ignoring my request to show me where it was brought up. Absence of evidence makes for a weak argument.

I think I saw the knockback perk from the Quakecon demo, when he was sifting through the perks, you have to pause it though, I may be wrong.

Yeah, I see what you mean by differentiating axes, maces, and swords. In all honesty, they would have been better off in their respective skills, but beggars can't be choosers, but even if their differences are only DoTs, crits, and armor reduction, I'd still use axes one playthrough and swords on another just because

If this is what so many people were meaning by "dumbed down", boy am I relieved. :vaultboy:

I have the Quake demo in my PC (no I am not going to share it because I agree that shaky cam footage should not be given to general public) but here is what I can see on it from the perks:

BLOCK:
-Blocking is 25% more effective.
-Bashing does more damage.
-Able to do power bash.
-Able to move faster with a shield raised.
-Time slows down if you are blocking during a power attack.

TWO HANDED WEAPONS:
-Two handed weapons do 20% more damage.
-Attacks with greatswords have 10% chance of doing critical hit.
-Attacks with warhammers ignores 25% of armor.

ONE HANDED:
-Attacks with war axes cause bleeding damage.
-One handed weapons, other than daggers do 40% more damage.


Please note that the game is not done so these are still subjects to possible change and they might have even been put there just as an example.

Ah, i stand corrected about perks. Still, I'm satisfied with the variety, although it may not be ridiculously varied like some may wish, I find it satisfactory, especially with Block

There's a block perk that resist magic. That's completely ridiculous and lore breaking. Blocking doesnt resist magic.

Also one that blocks arrows more effectively. Also, shut up about this whole lore breaking crap, they added to create balance, and it's Beth's lore, they can do what they want, I'm sure no one's really going to care about some fighter blocking a fire ball with his shield, it literally has no effect on the story, world, history, myths, anything really, besides gameplay. Right now, we can all se you're just nitpicking.

No, I'll continue to voice my concern of Beth messing with lore and gameplay designs. lore that they say that even the fans take more serious than they do. Blocking resisting magic=stupid. Dont tell members to 'shut up' either, I'm sure thats against the rules.

PR spin is what it is.



Not my problem.



No, it wouldn't.



No, it's not.



As difficult as having flying dragons, probably.



So, what is you point? Are you saying that you would rather the player that would like to build a character that fights their epic battles in this manner be denied that potential because you don't care for it? Does that mean that I should start petitioning Beth to remove all forms of swords, axes, and blunt objects because those are items the characters I tend to play do not use?



Sorry, I do not see the point of digging into threads that spanned over the period of months just to point out that arguments and discussions over levitation have actually occurred on this forum. It may be hard to believe, but I think it has happened. There may have even been some I was no involved in! :whistling:

See?

This is what I mean. We've yet to see much of anything that truly seperates the weapons from each other. Crit vs. ignoring armor is nothing but a different style of dealing damage, and I'd be willing to bet everyone and their mother uses sword because crit can overcome a high defense rating, whereas armor piercing won't kill an unarmored animal any quicker. No no no, they need to be different strategically. One needs to be purely offensive, another needs to be offensive defense (knockdown) and another needs to be mostly defensive or provide superior offense or defense depending on the situation.

Are you being serious? Lol, this isn't even an argument anymore, you're just being ridiculous. Most people are complaining about the game being balanced, but then you just say "yeah but shields can't block magic so staying balanced is stupid because it messes up one arbitrary detail in lore" Seriously, this is just ONE detail about blocking. Hell, you don't like it? don't pick it, that's the point in roleplaying anyways. And even then you'll still whine. Seriously, the Block skill is meant for people to resist damage, it's not supposed to be a rock paper scissors thing, where block is rock and magic is paper, you're just being pessimistic because your argument is lost

Blocking resisting magic is ridiculous and breaks lore. You haven't made one argument yet.

Wow, I like how 4 out of 5 of the arguments you just say "no". congratulations, you're about as responsive as a wall, I'm just going to stop this argument here and cease responding to you, seeing as how you've brought me down to you're level of idiocy

I am pretty sure it is possible to block stuff like fireball with a shield. I doubt the enemy NPC will use spells like fear, frenzy and so on on you so thats out of the way. The enemy probably wont be healing you either so that doesnt have to be blocked. The really only spell I see as to be unblockable with iron shield is Lightning bolt. Other than that I see no reason why spells couldnt be blockable. It is still just a projectile being fired at you whatever it is. If its electricity you should be [censored], but any other projectiles should be just fine to block. Thats the whole point of having a shield.