Was thinking about how perks were handled in FO vs. how skill points were handed out in DA.

In FO, you have to use the perk when you level up.

In DA, you store the skill point until you want to use it.

I really enjoyed the DA method far more. A couple of reasons are this:

1. It allows you to store perks, until you know what direction your character is heading. Why spend a perk, thinking your going to love marksman, then figure out later that it doesn't suit you.
2. It allows you to meet perk req's and then spend the perk on that tree. For instance, a perk in sneak req's 50 in sneak, but you're at 47. Store the perk, then use it when you hit 50.

There were times in FO, where there wasn't a great perk option...so you took the best thing you could think of. But some of the VATS perks went wasted as you progressed. I like this for the fact it will make for less powergaming and is probably more "realistic".

I can see both sides, although I favor the DA way of doing things.

Thoughts/Opinions?

Must take'em when you get'em, no resets, no going back sez I. :shrug:

I don't think he was asking for resets, just that you shouldn't be forced to take a perk that you don't want due to lack of skills etc...

I say save them, but really you should be forced to use them because there is a fixed point in time were you level. So as long as you are forced to spend "lvl-points" you should be forced to spend your perk point. Dunno if this come about clearly..


That being said i would like the option to be able to save them on a egotistic level

Spend them. No resets.

Should just have an option to change your perks, don't understand why people want to be stuck with something they ended up not liking.

Assuming Skyrim will be like past TES games, if you want to hold off until you reach a skill requirement you could just not sleep. :shrug:

That being said I'm all for being allowed to save my perk(s)

I don't get where you guys are getting this "reset' idea from. He never said anything about resetting your perks. He said he wants to save them. I,e never spend them in the first place until he reaches X skill requirement for X perk.

It's called consequences for your actions.

The prerequisite for most fallout perks were level based (with some SPECIAL based perks). For the most part, as you got to higher levels, there were more powerful perks. With Skyrim having skill level and certain perks as pre-requisites, this isn't as big of a deal. You can't hold onto them and just get the most powerful ones, since you need to get the ones below them first.

Also, since Skyrim is likely to have the need to rest to level up, you will have a chance to up your skills a little more to get them where you want them. Lastly, since you will get 50 perks, and any 1 skill will likely not have more than 15 perks in it, if you can't get the perk at this level, you can just get it at the next level, and spend your current point in one of the other skills that you use.

It sounds like there won't be much need to hold onto any perks. With over 280 total, I find it hard to believe that you can level up and not be able to choose a perk that you want/need.

I think you should have to buy your Perk when you level up; saving them so you can work on other requirements is cheesy. Don't cheese.

HOWEVER, I don't think you should be forced to level up the instant you get that last experience point. The Fallout method where the level up screen appears and you can't continue playing until you get through it svcked. Just because I killed my 500th guy doesn't mean I'm ready to make a snap decision about my next ability.

Freeze my xp if you want; I don't care. Just let me make the decision in my own time.

It's called a pre-emptive strike. There already being one thread about being able to discard and re-select perks, it's pretty likely the idea would eventually turn up here- probably in the form of "You should have to take them when you level, but be able to change them later." I was merely making it clear that I think they should be one-shot deals and be taken on the spot when earned. My grasp of English is strong enough to realize that I was adding onto the argument and addressing something that hadn't (yet) been thrown out, and knew exactly what was being asked for thank you very much.



I think you should have to level up when you get the needed XP; saving levelups so you can work on other requirements is cheesy. Don't cheese.

I do find level-on-rest far more convenient than forced levelling at what are often totally inappropriate moments. It can be very tension breaking when you're in a lull between battles and you have to stop and come right out of the moment while you decide whether to put points into more fire-power or health.

I'm not too bothered whether I'm forced to use the perk there and then or save it for later, though precedent suggests we'll have to use the perk the minute we level up.

I say make you choose and spend the point right as you level with no hoarding them up because thats the whole point, the idea that youre growing and learning as things progress/gaining new abilities/becoming more proficient in certain skills.

Also id vote for no resetting perks, and if you want to there is already a function existing in game right now that allows you to change your decision, called Game Saves. If youre so scared about the having to make a decision then just save your game sometime before you level so you can load back to the clean slate and play how you want gaining that experience/knowledge the right way.

EDIT: Im fine with having to spend the perk the instant you level in any situation but also i do like the level on rest idea, but i dont think you should be able to gain more than one level back to back quickly.

THIS ^

I actually don't like your idea... I'd like to have the existing Skyrim perk system.

Spend 'em when you get 'em. No saving up points until you unlock a bunch of powerful perks at level 40 (assuming there are level-locked perks, for instance), then picking several high-level perks. It'd be unbalanced.


(Saving the points doesn't matter as much when the "unlock" condition for high perks is "spend X points on lower perks" - in that system, you still end up with the same balance of power no matter when you spend them. But in a system where higher perks are unlocked by level or skill progression? Saving them til later would be breaking the power curve. Needless to say, we don't know how Skyrim is doing it.)

IMHO thats a bit harsh for a videogame.

I think that you should be able to preserve or save your perk-points, and wait until you want to use them
but I also think that if they do it the other way, where you have to spend them they should have some kind of item,
or I'm sure they're will be a DLC of some sort or a mod (Thank god for the modding community) where you can reset your perks.

Realistically... I can forget about something in real life, and learn something NEW any time I want. Just throwing that out there....

Otherwise, I'm not sure which system I'd prefer. I'd like to be able to possibly save some and be able to build my character exactly how I like with no mistakes. But saving them leaves no consequence from selecting the wrong perk early on. If you make a quest decision, then you should except what happens later on in a future event. But as far as character development, I'm not sure where I stand on this.

Perk resets in classless games don't "feel" right. Messes up replayability a bit. I mean, if you can just do any build you want on one character, and keep switching around, why do you ever need to make a new character to try a different build?

Not being able to reset perks that you choose is harsh?

You have to choose your perks right away.Otherwise,what is the point of skill requirements?

Oh,and no resets either.Just the notion of that is utterly ridiculous.

I say you should be able to save them if you need to in order to head down a path you want. No junk akin to the +5 modifier annoyance for attributes. I'm so glad that's gone. I enjoyed playing so much better once I modded that out. I could just play the game rather than worry about raising the "wrong" skills that level. :foodndrink:

A leveling system should allow you to choose a path for your character, and forcing people into hasty decisions as they sit and stare at a level up screen for the "consequences" buzz word doesn't sit well with me. It reeks of forcing people into a play style based on personal preferences which isn't how the game should be designed. If you want to pick the perk every level go ahead and make yourself do it. It's none of anyone's concern if anyone else so-called "cheeses" their leveling by choosing their own path and puts off decisions.

I can bend that choice and consequences mantra in support of being able to hold off picking perks too! By putting off choosing a perk you are getting no benefit from any perk that level. Your choice is inaction in choosing at that time. If you put off spending perks for a long time you're going to be underpowered. That is your "consequence."

I'm not saying I'd be disappointed if you have to choose. I just think being able to put it off is a good idea.

Maybe that mindset comes from people lots of MMOs?

Do most MMORPGs even let you reset things? I have nearly 6000 alternate advancement points on my Everquest character and you absolutely cannot go back on them. You can however bank up to 30 of them before you must spend some.

Perhaps you could put off a certain number of perks, but then it's just making it needlessly complicated in my opinion.

Hah well thats another reason why i love EQ...but yes most of the newer MMOs cater to the more casual player i guess youd say, like in EQ to find a quest you had to /hail someone and hope you got the dialogue right when you attempted to talk to this random person to MAYBE find a quest, while in the newer MMOs they have huge markers over the quest givers heads etc. They have become a bit dumbed down.....Also like in EQ how on the original zek servers once you killed someone you could take their money/items and this was found too harsh and eventually changed.

Why should you be forced to make multiple characters? They've made it perfectly clear they aren't trying to force people to play in one way. If you want to make many characters well fine do that! If you want to make one character and max all characters fine you can do that also, even if you can't get all the perks. They aren't going to design the game to try and force people to play through with multiple characters, nor should they. This is a single player game after all. You need only worry about how you want to play, and absolutely nothing stops you from making multiple characters.


I would not call this a "casual" thing as many of the players of any MMORPG are just as "hardcoe" as Everquest's players. Modern EQ has submenus that list every single quest and mission and raid in the entire expansion anyway, but honestly sites like Allakhazam listed all that after the first wave of players found them in the past. Everquest's way of finding the right keywords may have some nostalgia value but it's more a product of antiquated 1990s design than any hardcoe or casual aspect. I am surprised to hear you can redo your stuff in most modern MMORPGs though. Honestly if that sticks it's probably better game design in the end, especially when people put so many hours into their characters. Leveling in a single player game is so much faster it's not as big of a deal.