No, not like Fallout.

What I mean are the skill perks that were in Oblivion, they were my favorite thing about leveling up a skill. The were some pretty interesting ones like the dodge/roll you get from gaining Journeyman Acrobatics skill, or the zoom function in archery from getting Journeyman in that skill. Unfortunately a lot of the skill perks were boring and bland, like the simplicity of Alchemy or Athletics' perks. The power attacks also weren't too cool considering they were all the same.

I was thinking that all skills should have some interesting perks, like with Mastery in Blade/Long Blade would let you dual wield two long one-handed blades (if dual wield is present) along with a new power attack.
-At Journeyman or Expert Alchemy skill you could create explosive flasks.
-At Expert Destruction Spells could have a random chance of inflicting a second effect, like fire spells having an extra DoT effect, frost spells having an extra slow effect, and shock spells having an extra paralysis effect.
-At Mastery in Sneak you could perform special assassination moves with daggers, and their success would be based on your level over your opponents level.
-At Journeyman Athletics you get the ability to sprint, which reduces fatigue.

Novice in anything should just give drawbacks, with Apprentice in skills would have no negative effects.

This would give a much greater end game feel of being a real master in a skill.

What skill perks would you include, or do you anticipate?

I really like the sneak and athletic skills, since I usually play a Ranger.

I think it shouldn't be something you just wake up one day having leveled up and can suddenly do this thing
you should have to be taught or trained, but cannot do so until you've reached sufficient level

That would be cool, it would increase immersion and make a lot more sense than the alternative, also it would give better uses to skill trainers that were never very interesting before.

I was about to write up a huge rant about how Fallout should stay away from Skyrim until I saw the fist line

i like most of your ideas.

Wanna explain which ideas you like or don't and why, or add something to the thread :turned:

Oh another idea!
-With Expert Marksman you can shoot flaming arrows :flamethrower:

of course, that would require crafting to make them!
you'd need rags and oil, first
unless it's magical fire

Eh suspension of disbelief, in FO:NV you have a lighter when using dynamite, maybe just show an animation of a match lighting the arrow, or you could just get the recipe for crafting flaming arrows, therefore being able to use them once created.

I would find it super nice to be able to learn special abilities after maxing 2 or more major skills that combine them in some way. Max melee weapon and marksman = can smack people at melee range with your bow, any weapon and destruction = add elemental damage to power/sneak attacks, although... you can already make spells that combine multiple schools of magic so I guess it would just effect weapons and armor skills..... Alteration and armor combine for lower armor weight (not a huge reduction) and alteration plus weapon skill would increase weapon/arrow weight (increase damage, especially power/sneak attacks). I like to role-play weapon masters and would like some form of magical abilities without needing to cast spells. The BIGGEST thing is having only MAJOR skills unlock the ability to learn special abilities like that.

Only giving mastery perks to major skills would definitely be an interesting way to increase specialization without limiting too much.

Also combination skill perks would have a lot of possible combinations, even not including magic. I like the hitting with your bow idea, but that doesn't necessarily seem like something you would need to be a master of melee weapons to do. Maybe mastery of marksman and melee weapons lets you shoot your main weapon from your bow, doing an extreme amount of damage, kind of extreme, but rule of cool applies.

Probably one of the better ideas for Perks!

Oblivion's perk system did svck...so having new skill perks would be cool. I really like the idea ISCG posted about having trainers teach you new perks once your skill level is high enough. :thumbsup:

Perks available at certain levels depending on your specialization like in Fallout 3 would be nice in my opinion. If some of them unlock special assassination moves for assassins or shield bash/pummel strike for warriors, then it would really give you the opportunity to forge a truly different character in each play-through. Also such perks would make your fighting style truly unique, not the same moves that every high level bandit pulls off in a fight.

Another idea would to get perks based on achievements in the game. Like killing a mythical creature such as a unicorn could increase mounted speed, or getting 100 kills with a warhammer could increase your encumbrance (swinging that thing around so much would definitely increase your upper body strength and ability to carry more.)

More ideas!
-Mastery in Spears(if present) lets you throw you spear for an instant X6 critical hit if it connects.
-Mastery in Axes lets you do a spinning whirlwind power attack that lasts longer the more you hold the button, but you get dizzy after a few seconds.
-Expert in acrobatics lets you dodge attacks if you're not holding a shield, if you time your block for right when they strike.
-Journeyman in Illusion gives you a spell that creates a clone of yourself with 1/7th of your health, and cannot deal damage.

This. FO:NV does this, where you get perks for killing X amount of Ys. I think Bethesda could expand upon this a bit to something like 50 successful bow shots while in sneak will allow zooming with a bow.

sounds too much like achievements to me
it doesn't really sound like something I would want in my RPGs

They are achievements, but what hero doesn't have achievements to back up his name? If I kill the Uderfrykte Matron that's an achievement, but I get nothing for it D: The lore is interesting but small passive bonuses would be nice as well.

if you use too many fire spells perhaps you should get a pyromancer perk and do extra damage with fire and take a little less damage?




perhaps there could be skill perks that give you a skill, like being able to extract spider venom or get animal hide?

It would be nice if you could choose your "perk" at each tier or proficiency with a skill, allowing for more character specialization/customization.

I think choosing perks is going too close to Fallout territory. I love Fallout but I don't think that something so similar to that system would fit in TES. Also three perks for each skill that aren't just passive boosters is enough, it gets difficult to think of so many.

Achievements would be "Earn 10 Bethesda points for 50 successful bow attacks while in sneak mode"

Why don't you want perks like that? It shows character development ("After plenty of practice, you have developed better eyesight and are now more keen about where you are aiming.") Perks don't have to work specifically like this, but I think it's a pretty neat idea

Character customization is pretty standard RPG territory. I thought the tiered skill perks from oblivion were a pretty great addition, I don't see how that would be any different.

This is what I was talking about.

I never meant getting points for doing something, like online achievements. That would be silly.

I don't like the idea of leveling up and suddenly being able to do something that was previously not available. I like a slower progression. Consider your dual wield example, at %25 mastery of blade you would be able to dual wield with major drawbacks. As you progress the draw backs subtly disappear, and are replaced with slight "perks" such as, say a power attack exclusive to dual wield combat. I think a subtle progression would be much more immersive rather than leveling up a mastery and bam you can now do X which you couldn't do earlier even though you were %99 of the way to leveling up on this mastery.

How I would do it is make it so that as you increase a skill, you get "perk points" with each level up. No announcement or anything, just a silent tally. When you speak to a trainer or are in another "study" situation (something else for another conversation), instead of directly training the skill you can spend the points to learn perks relevant to that skill. For example, with 25 in Destruction you would have 25 perk points (just random example numbers, anything specific would have to be worked out in balance testing) to spend on learning Destruction perks. They might be general bonuses like -5% spell cost, specific ones like +10% fire damage, or rarer spell effect types that you can't easily purchase/learn anywhere. There could be prereq perks (like taking the +10% fire damage to unlock an extra +20%), ones that can only be learned through a special source (you might find and study a rare book like Fingers of the Mountain, adding a unique perk to your options next time you choose to train them, or find a master trainer in blades to learn a special power attack move only he teaches), and combination perks, such as having 25 in destruction and enchantment and 30 in marksman to open a perk letting you charge arrows with elemental damage before firing them.

There wouldn't be enough points to get every perk, so you'd have to specialize according to your character. It would allow for a lot more customization without sending the balance flying out of control.

The idea of getting them from trainers and combining them is cool, but I think the perks should not be passive bonuses like -5% spell cost or +10% fire damage, I would much rather prefer perks that add something new to gameplay, and are more visible than passive bonuses. Like instead of what you said, perks for destruction would give secondary effects to spells, like what I said before about a DoT effect, a slow effect, or a paralysis effect. or Mastery in spear skill lets you throw your spear as a very powerful attack. passive bonuses like +10% fire spell damage would be boring, and not very noticeable.

Also limiting perks to major skills, or limiting mastery perks to major skills, would be a good form of specialization, so someone who started competent in blade will always have the edge over someone who started incompetent, but not so much as limiting others from training other skills.