Once again, I can only agree, especially with the bolded part.

Im going to put my personal feelings about the whole LGBT issue aside for this one.




Look man, he found it in his heart to tell you something that he is truly feeling and just him telling you about wanting to change gender is a pretty big deal. it is a big deal to tell someone something, especially a friend, that may cause a rift in your relationship. Think about how much you mean to him for him to tell you this deeply personal issue. Ive told my friend things that i have battled with for a very long time and even though my religious preference is totally opposite than my best friends, we still remain friends despite our differences. If your friendship ends, well, it ends and it is nobodies fault.

Their behavior changes, their system of beliefs changes, and because I am a self-conscious scumbag, my ability to be in public with them changes. There were things that we used to like doing (that I had assumed he liked doing) that he now considers unbecoming of a female. I am horribly self-conscious and I do care about what people think about me when I go into public. What if he comes into my place of work? Will my boss begin to judge me if he sees the strange people I associate with? It's a terrible thing to consider, but that is the society we live in.

I am also going to talk this over with my other friends. Whatever we do, we do as a whole, though the input I have acquired from this thread will be measured equally. among the opinions of others. I'll also make an effort to do more research at trans communities themselves, and nothing I do will be done without careful deliberation.

This all comes back to you and how her transition is going to affect you.

I mean, I'm somewhat of the opposite - some friends and I wore floofy tails while walking around town a few weeks ago - but from what you are saying all this discomfort you are talking about seems to be centered on how others will see you for associating with her (pre-op? post-op?). And, as you noted, perhaps there will be a few behavioral changes (maybe she won't play video games as much?) but I'm sure you will adjust. I guess my point is that she cares enough about your friendship that she shared her true nature to you - and from what you have written here, it doesn't altogether seem that you will be there for her in the future.

I will be supportive until he is actually a she. At that point, I would wish to continue our friendship, but only if friendship from then on could be built on the same foundations our previous one has.

Good luck to you (and her), then.

Behavior may change, but not to any personality-changing extent; no more than the injured athlete example, or someone getting married. System of beliefs...huh? You've already mentioned she's been an advocate of gender reassignment surgeries in the past. It's not like religion will change or suddenly they'll have a new set of morals.

As for the rest, well, that's obviously up to you. Nothing changes by saying "be less selfish" or anything. But, however it goes, don't hold things like that against your friend. Your insecurities are not their fault, and too often people will shift the blame of that sort of thing instead of dealing with it themselves.

Well, "foundations of a friendship" is a pretty broad term which can be interpreted and understood in many different ways and which means different things to different people. This is a person whom you mean so much to that (s)he came to you almost first when (s)he wanted to talk to someone about this. If you mean so much to him/her and (s)he trusts you so much I think that's a pretty good foundation of a friendship and it's the same as before as far as I understood it. I suppose you need to be fair towards yourself as well, but all I'm saying is don't dismiss the friendship immediately before you actually get a sense of how much his/her behaviour will change and whether or not you'll be unable to get over that. Give him/her a chance. I hope you'll realise that your friend hasn't been lost and that you'll be able to appreciate that (s)he can finally actually be him-/herself (in the full sense of the word) among his/her friends.

Don't worry, it's not her personality that's going under the knife..

And since she's declared to being a lisbian, you can still hang, and scope out chicks..




most importantly, your buddy doesn't have to lie to the universe anymore. Be happy for her, even if it's uncomfortable, since that'll fade away in two weeks anyway




@Veeno
I googled google, and the world didn't explode...



now what? Faulty wiring maybe?

Apparently it only happens if you're at a certain location in North America.

SOMEBODY WARN DONALD TRUMP!!!!!!

OP, I'm getting the feeling you're leaning towards breaking it off with your newly female friend. Starwulf, I respect that you could tell your best friend/wife anything but I'm assuming you have no truly despicable parts of your personality.

I find it very strange that he's becoming a lisbian female.

Well I for one don't see anything strange about that. If I wanted to be a girl I'd be a lisbian too. :hubbahubba:

I mean, FOUR BOOBS!!!

It's also odd that the fishy wanderer hasn't posted in here.


I have a bad feeling there is a transgender lisbian fetish site out there. :confused:
Edit: Oh god I found one.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1184880-personal-dilemma/page__view__findpost__p__17591371

If you thought of it, someone has a fetish of it. Best not to think about a lot of things too hard, you might google it.

Edit: Random thought, I wonder if there is a political theory fetish site?

This
There are also people born with exterior male or female genetalia, and opposite gender interior sixual organs. Such as CAIS, a male type xy having a [censored], a blind uterus, or none uterus all, presenting as a female, identifying themselves as female and having [censored] instead of ovaries.




To the OP: If you cannot accept that your friend has legitimate gender and physical identity issues, then you need to move on. For his sake, and for yours. You are going to lose way more in the friendship department than he is. He was honest with you, and sadly, you must reciprocate honesty to him. Only difference is his honesty cost him much, much more. You cannot support him right now, you are not equipped currently to do so, unless you educate yourself. Who have you been friends with? You have been friends with who you wanted to see, and who you wanted to see knew that, but finally, couldn't take living a lie anymore.



I also have to throw this in here: If I found out my husband was gay (which is possible, one of his brothers is gay, and the other bisixual) I would not feel lied to. He knows what I would do. A threesome.
Seriously though, after nearly two decades toghether, I would be angry at myself for not seeing it, and for him not feeling comfortable enough to tell me.

We choose friends for many reason, but generally it's because we find common interests, ideals, and goals. You will make and lose friends for different reasons over the years, and that's just life. People grow and change in different ways, and at different stages. For some people to say in one breath, "It's no big deal," and then turn around and state that' it's so important that you need to go study support groups is so ridilculous it's not even funny. It IS a big deal, and your friends knows it, you know it, and everybody that is connected to this persons life knows it.
Still, the person in question has made a decision, or so it seems, and they know the risk they are taking in this endeavor. They can and will lose friends and maybe family members support. Not so much that they will lose caring and love, but it IS so life changing that it is going to affect everybody this person comes in contact with.
To say otherwise is ignorant and naive. You don't try gender changing like trying a new hair color. Hair grows back, or you can dye it a different color. Putting on a dress and makeup and taking hormones to change ones look and voice etc. is a little more intense. "I tried that girl thing, didn't work out so good." And then go back to being a man. If people didn't think you had mental problems before they sure would after bouncing back and forth. Ideals will probably change, interests will probably change, and friends will probably change as well. That's just the way it goes. You don't have to accept everything someone does just because they are a friend/family member. We choose our friends for reasons, but then, we will also lose some of them for other reasons. For anybody to put you down or make you feel like a bad person because you can't/haven't accepted this is as narrow-minded as they are saying you are being for having doubts about it. We don't HAVE to accept everything, or like everybody, or whatever is politically correct. You just have to decide what's best for you as well as the other person. If you feel you can't accept this, it doesn't make you a bad person, it means you have different beliefs, ideals, goals, etc. and that's all there is to it. :shrug:

Few here have said it is "no big deal." If you think I've been saying anything remotely like that, then that was not my intention. It is a big deal. The OP's friend has trusted him enough to reveal to him that she is transgender and (likely?) wants to transition fully to a woman. It is a major change in both her life and in the OP's relationship to her (at least in how he views his friend).

And the reason people have been telling the OP to go to support groups is because he came here to us wanting to know what he should do. We told him - go to a support group to learn more about the issues that are affecting your transgender friend.

You're right. No one needs to accept the beliefs or views or whatever of someone else. The OP doesn't need to accept his transgender friend's transition. And that, based upon this lengthy conversation we've all been having, is probably what is going to happen eventually.

My own problem with what the OP has been telling us is that his reasons for having doubts are either incorrect - simply being transgender is not a mental disorder - or many of his doubts are selfish and/or completely out of left field. It's perfectly understandable that the OP is concerned and confused about how his future relationship - if any - with his transgender friend will progress. But being worried about being seen in public with a good friend because they may seem weird to other people? That's a terrible reason to end a 12+ year friendship.

The OP, from my understanding, has known his friend for 12+ years. And this friend has recently come out to him and others as transgender. The OP then tells us that his friend has "lied" to him for the past 12 years, give or take. That is, both from a psychological perspective as well as an empathy perspective, making the OP out to be the "victim" of what the OP's transgender friend is going through. As I have stated, repeatedly, no one knows if they are transgender or gay or whatever at the same point in time. It likewise takes time to bring up the courage to tell others, let alone the time necessary to come to terms with it on a self-identity level. The idea that the OP's transgender friend has been "lying" to him about her true self is ignoring the transgender friend's own confusion about her self-identity (likely for a year or more) and the years in which the transgender friend had no idea she was transgender.

Now, if the transgender friend had, for some reason, told the OP that she was not transgender and knew that she was transgender, that's obviously her lying to the OP. But that is, from what the OP has told us and from what I know about transgender issues, not even close to what has happened. The OP's friend probably wrestled with her self-identity for a good while, then got up the courage to tell the OP and then the OP tells us that his friend "lied" to him. Making the OP out to be the victim in all of this.

The OP is right to be confused about his friend's transition. Based upon what he has told us, I doubt he will remain friends with her for very long - especially after her physical transition. She will change in some ways (physical and behavior), that is certain, but, if the OP lets her, I'm sure she would still continue to be his friend.

If the OP decides not to hang out with the friend anymore, it is NOT selfish. We all have our own little voice inside of us that tells us if we are okay with something or not. And we have our own likes and dislikes and things we are willing to accept and things we are not. If he chooses not to accept it, it is neither wrong nor selfish, just preference. And I find it disgusting that people will try to make him feel as if he has to accept it, regardless of his reasons for not accepting it. Yes, I'm sure the friend has wrestled many of times with this decision, but ultimately it is their choice, just as it is the the OP's choice to accept it or not. If they choose not to, it doesn't make the OP "bad" or "wrong." :shrug: The OP can ask for as much advice on the subject as he wants, but ultimately, is, and should be his choice and he has NO reason to feel bad if he decides not to accept it.

...Make friends with the new them instead, if you don't see them as the same person.

EDIT: I think they probably ARE the same person that they were before, but you need to work through this. They've worked through their problems with it, it's time for you to do the same.

Here is what the OP has said, in a nutshell:

1. He feels that being transgender is a "minor mental disorder."
2. He is bigoted towards those who are transgender (his words, not mine).
3. He worries about what others will think of him if he hangs out with a transgendered person (his example was if his boss were to see him talking with his transgendered friend).

#3? About as close to the definition of selfishness as one can http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/selfish.

Being transgender is not a choice. Going through the six-reassignment surgery? Most certainly a choice.

It is certainly the OP's choice to either accept his transgendered friend or not. No one is saying otherwise that he must accept his friends transition - but since he is the friend of a transgendered person, we recommend that he be supportive of her if he wants to remain her friend.

What I have been saying is that his reasons for possibly ending his relationship with his friend, as he has outlined them, are crap. If he had merely said "I am concerned my friend - after she has transitioned - and I will no longer appreciate doing the same things because she feels that said things are not what a woman should do" I'm sure most of us would have said "well, that happens" and that would have been that.

I can understand and even empathize with the OP's reasons for being concerned. And yes, putting on dresses, wearing makeup, taking hormones and all the other things transgendered people do IS a choice. The only thing we have to do on this planet is die. That's it. The rest is choices. You can argue that people are in situations they didn't choose like sickness, cancer, blah blah blah. But they can choose how they deal with it. Just like the OP and the friend can CHOOSE how they deal with this situaton. The friend CHOSE to "come out," is CHOOSING to change their appearance and whatever they're full scope of doing is, and the OP now has the CHOICE to continue hanging out with that friend, deciding to end the friendship, or just making it a lot less interactive. Whatever he decides, it will be based on his own moral compass, his own preferences, and own ideals. IF he decides he will be too embarrassed being seen with this person, that's for him to decide whether he's comfortable or not. If he thinks he could lose his job, or be looked down on because of hanging out with his friend, well, we choose our friends for certain reasons don't we? If we are uncomfortable about being seen with our friends, than why are they our friends to begin with? Friendship is supposed to be a comfort and a refuge, not embarrassing or uncomfortable. I have lost lifelong friends because their ideals or beliefs changed way too much for us to interact on a close day to day basis. We don't hate each other, just have nothing in common anymore. It happens. But, I've also had friends that I too couldn't be seen with anymore. Either because of their appearance (to draw attention to themselves, then get mad when people stare) or because their attitudes became unbearable. Ultimately the OP is doing the right thing by examining himself, the friendship and how it will affect his and their future. Whatever he decides should be decided because that is what he'll have to live with. And it should be something they are both comfortable with, and he shouldn't feel guilty or bad if he chooses to end or slow the friendship.

Technically it is a choice, but it's not much of a choice when the alternative is a life of misery. I hope there's no suggestion that, in cases like this, the latter might be considered a reasonable course of action for them to take for no better reason than not offending others' sensibilities.

Oh, I see. So the transgender person, knowing they are transgender, has to either choose to live, for their entire life, in a body which constantly feels alien and wrong to them, or instead choose to acknowledge who they feel they are and bring their physical being into alignment with their mental state. Yeah, that's a fine choice to have to make. Makes it all seem so easy.

All I will say to this is that I believe his reasons for (possibly) ending the friendship are, in my eyes, bad ones.

If one of my lifelong friends came to me and told me that they were transgender, you know what I would do? Give 'em a big hug and tell them that I will support them no matter their decision. People change over their lifetimes. The strength of a friendship is determined in part by how much people are willing to deal with both how they themselves change and how their friends change over time.