I have noticed this as well. You (the OP, not Rhekarid) don't seem to understand that there is nothing chosen about this. You didn't choose to feel like a heterosixual male and you can't choose to feel like a homosixual and/or like a female. Your friend didn't choose to feel like a homosixual female and (s)he can't choose to feel like a heterosixual male either. There's no choice about it, it's engrained in your brain long before birth.

hmm... well to me it doesn't seem right that since he made this big of a change, that you have to support it. I mean yes the right thing to do is support HIM because loving someone for who they are no matter what they do to themselves is what I have believed in for years, but at the same time I know it will be hard because it is a big change. I couldn't support my friend's changes any longer when they all started drinking and smoking pot non stop, so I can definitely see how hard this is for you. I still love those friends, but I do not support what they do. They have even come up and asked my opinion about them drinking and smoking, and I have flat out told them, I don't support it, but I am not going to stop being your friend. You don't have to technically support his decision and say you agree that what he did was right, but just keep being his friend.

Being transgendered isn't a choice, last I checked. Going through the six-change operation is certainly a choice, and one that I would never recommend anyone takes lightly, but in most cases the six-change operation helps to bring the transgendered person a strong sense of being in the "right" body. Feeling "out of place" in one's own body is, I'm sure, a big burden to bear, and any choices that may help to alleviate that burden in a positive way are good choices (whether through psychotherapy or gender-reassignment).

Your overall point about still being someone's friend no matter their choices is a good one in my book, though.

Here's the way I see it:

You don't get to choose who they are, and by claiming she has a mental "disorder" you're essentially taking what she is and saying that it is sick and needs to be treated because it is harmful to her. It doesn't matter what you mean, that's what she'll hear.

It's probably one of the most hurtful things you could do to your friend to say that to her face.

And just a reminder: She was like this long, looong before she told you. You don't tell people these things without wrestling with it for a very long time.

While being transgendered is certainly not a disorder, some sort of mental issues throughout this persons life could have led up to this. A person is not born this way. At least, I certainly do not believe in fate, and support the whole theory of nurture over nature. While it is perfectly ok for your friend to make this decision, you may want to make sure he has thought about this a long time and know what he's getting into. Ultimately, unless he decides to change his personality and who he is, I would support him in any way you can, this is going to be a big change for him and could probably use a friend by his side.

As has already been said, there's a huge difference between those friends of yours and this person. Drinking and smoking pot non-stop is a thing of personal choice - you can choose whether to drink and/or smoke pot or not, but you can't choose whether to feel like a female or like a male. It isn't a change, it's how this person has always felt.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsixual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html.

While a good read, it does not disprove anything I said. While their is some evidence of a male brain having female properties to part of the brain (and vice/versa), nurture/life events/choices/experiences are going to shape whether that individual develops into a male or female mentality over the course of his or her life.

My point was that it isn't entirely a choice. If your brain is hard-wired to view yourself as male or female when chromosomal gender is the opposite, few life experiences, if any, are going to magically make your brain rewire itself in such a fashion. You seem to be leaning a bit too hard on the "nurture trumps nature" argument.

True, but what I gathered from that article, is that only part of the brain behaves differently. I wasn't saying it was a choice. Obviously by now his friend views himself as a female, and no choice he makes is gonna change that. I'm just saying that he wasn't born pre-destined to be the opposite gender. His life experiences (with the help of possibly some feminine brain activity) shaped him into what he is today.

For example, a different guy with the same feminine brain matter, but very different life experiences could have gone just the opposite way of his friend.

EDIT: No, I realize that nature is there and the fact that his friend could have that feminine white matter in his brain certainly helped in changing his view of himself.

No, she was not born pre-destined to be transgender. The difference in white brain matter likely pushed her in that direction rather strongly, however. Life experiences do help shape us, but if your brain is wired in a specific manner (a neuro-developmental disorder like autism, for instance) there isn't much your life experiences can do about it. If the white matter in the brain pushes a person to view themselves as female, even from a young age, that is going to influence life experiences.

Yes, but that feminine white brain matter will, in some fashion, influence the thoughts and feelings of the individual, even if they do not, in the grand scheme of things, identify as transgendered.

I read the article as saying that part of the brain had the matter of the opposite six, which would mean that the rest is male. Anyways, I respect your view and I even learned some from it, but were getting a bit off topic and this isn't constructive for the OP. I think we can agree that he should try to be there for his friend and stick by his side. I can't imagine the amount of stress that his friend must be feeling.

There are specific areas of the brain that influence how we view ourselves and differences in those parts change how we view ourselves as individuals. The whole brain doesn't get a say when dealing with specific issues - it would be akin to your soundcard giving advice to your videocard. Not all the brain is changed when a person is chromosomal male / female / intersixed - only specific parts are influenced by hormones depending on the chromosomes. If the white matter in the study is actually the part of the brain that says "I'm X" then that is a rather important determinant.

It is (hopefully) constructive for the OP, since the OP (from his words) seems to feel that being transgender is a "minor mental disorder." He can follow along with our discussion, or simply take the advice we have already given him and go with that. Or he can ask the mods to lock the thread if he so desires.

I've been of the opinion that it is not something you are born with, however developmental acquired traits have the ability to change someone more than the way they were "born". I've never been one to believe that people need to be born any particular way, it makes it out to be as if there is some cruel hand of fate that predetermines life beyond the control or acceptance of an individual. There's nothing wrong with being homosixual and transgendered, but I don't think it's something you are born with. Maybe when it matters to you later in life, it's not something you can change because it grew on you, but I don't think it's something you're born with.

The reason I've stated mental illness is not because I've done a lot of research on the subject. It's rather because I've done no research at all (and I do declare myself as a bigot, which is a personal flaw of mine) because I simply cannot wrap my mind around the idea of being unable to accept yourself for who you are. And maybe it wouldn't be as awkward if this were like Ghost in the Shell, where one can easily just take their brain out and stick it into a perfect female body, but when a person undergoes the transition into being transgendered, they don't "truly" become biologically male or female, regardless of what they insist about their emotional self or how much surgery they get. Plus I've never really liked the idea of surgery, as it tends to turn people into a grotesque version of what they want to be who fall into the other side of the uncanny valley despite the fact that they are still human. Believe me when I say that this individual has no female characteristics aside from their personality and long hair, it wouldn't be an easy change.

Not to be totally contrary, but what then distinguishes between what you are and what you are not born with? The length of time in which it takes to show?

I think they may have always been who they are now. youre just finding out more.
I cant say its the easiest of things to get over, but thats the way you have to look at it, if you want to remains friends- that even though this person has always been this way (to an extent) you were still friends.

Good luck to you and your friend

OP: Unlike some of the others on this thread who have basically called you a bigot, I realize that this is actually harder on YOU then on your friend. I imagine 90% of the people on this thread have never endured a situation like this(and thus, their words have little weight, words are just words until they are put to the test, though I'm sure by saying this, many people will suddenly claim they have plenty of transgender friends or at least know a few. I've been alive nearly 30 years and I've never even MET a single transgender person). Unlike you, your friend has likely realized that they wanted to be a woman a long time ago, and has lived with that fact for many years. They've probably known something was different about them years ago. YOU on the other hand, while maybe noticing they were a bit Effeminate, have had absolutely no warning that this was going to happen. And quite frankly, there are more then a few guys out there that have feminine qualities, and lots of women who have masculine qualities. That's hardly a reason to suspect your close friend of years suddenly wants to become a different gender. I imagine it's quite a blow, and quite frankly, you're handling the situation FAR better then I myself would be able to. At least your willing to try to take advice on how to handle the situation. I can't say I'd be able to do the same. You're hardly a "Terrible bigot" as some people on this thread have implied, you're merely expressing confusion, and concern, and even a bit of hurt over a situation of which you had no clue, and no ability to stop it from happening.

So, saying that, My best advice is: Only you know how you want to handle this. Only you know how far you are willing to go to accept your friend in their new form. Contrary to others belief on this thread, friendship does NOT equate to Unconditional Love. I'd die for my best friend, jump in front of a bullet literally, but if he were to suddenly drop a bombshell on me that he wanted to be a woman, I doubt our friendship would ever remain the same. I agree with others that perhaps a bit of counseling might be in order, though I think you should bring your friend along so you can have them help explain to you along with the counselor how they reached their decision and why they feel they are a different gender inside. In the end, it's your decision on how far the Olive branch of friendship goes and how much your willing to accept. Good luck, and I wish you the best on this journey into new territories.

But there are, rather indisputably, things you ARE born with. The way you're raised doesn't change the color of your hair and skin (outside of getting a tan, of course), or the sound of your voice. It's certainly not a matter of choice growing up how many ribs your body will develop. These are physical attributes determined by your genetics. We can also observe that these things vary; most siblings are not identical, despite coming from the same genetic source. Some unfortunate people are born missing entire limbs. These same genetic variations can affect the brain just as they do any other part of you. Down Syndrome is not an acquired trait.

While it's the big things that attract attention, why is it unfeasible for smaller variations to change someone internally? Hair color, as applied to the brain? We're not created with major physiological differences, but it is instead tiny hormones that trigger such major changes. It's not a 50/50 from scratch thing, humans are female by default and become male through the influence of the Y chromosome. With so many tiny, complicated chemical changes and interactions that go on during development, and how many make up who we are inside our brain, a biological basis is not at all far-fetched.

As a in the process male to female I understand how my friends reacted or well once reacted. Anyhow I would advise getting information from LGBT group of sorts. Or do some internet research and I think a person with your grammar cability and smarts can tell what is biased and what not. But giving out on your friend will not help. My brother is having a hard time with being trans and my dad and step dad. It takes time to get use to new things and after a while you might be able to shrug it off. Me and my mom joke about it a lot. It takes time and a open mind. Don't leave your friend alone or they might not be there the next day. I am going to tell you a story about a friend I had , he wasn't in the LGBT community but it is relavent well enough. My friend this weekend killed himself , I knew he was depressed and some other people did too and I knew all the horible reasons why he was. I wish I could of stopped him but I thought it wasn't that bad. In short you need to be there for your friend , sure it may be about six months , a year , four years till you start calling him a she. Your friend needs support , hell I have a good amount of people supporting me and it is still tough. Your friend need support

Thanks. Actually having input from someone undergoing a transition themselves, I think my understanding has been broadened.

The fact of the matter is that they are my friend, and have been so for well on 12 years. I will continue to be as supportive as I can. When they are finished and begin their new life, I guess I'll just start over, and if it works out, great, if it doesn't, I guess it wasn't meant to be. This also seems to me like voting for a politician you really like, and then they change parties while in office. When it comes time for reelection, do you vote for the person because they are still the same candidate you preferred, or do you stick to other candidates that are more like how they were before changing? I've never really interacted to any extent with LGBT groups (nor has my friend, for that matter) despite the fact that they do try to rope asixuals into their ethos which I count myself as. It might also just be because there were some real hokerrs involved with these groups while I was growing up in high school, because they were of the opinion that the best way to counteract irrationality was with more irrationality. It did little to help my sympathy for any sort of cause in the end, but I've considered myself an accepting individual regardless.

It's tough, it really is, and for him much more than myself. I feel like a terrible a**hole because I seem to be making myself out to be some sort of victim after all this. I suppose that's just my selfish nature creeping out (because if you don't care about yourself, then who do you care for?) which is just a flaw in my character. But you are all awesome people for all this advice, and I appreciate it greatly. I'll continue to think over every detail, and work out a course of action.

What strikes me is that you're giving it so much thought and consideration. It's not so much the feelings that define a person but how they act on them; that is, it's much easier to jump to a conclusion and stay in one's comfort zone, not so much to have to reappraise your own values. You're right in that you need to deal with your own feelings on the matter, but that makes you a much more valuable friend to her than someone who simply has a knee-jerk reaction one way or the other.

Personally, I would not take a gender transformation of my friend very well. In fact, almost nobody in my county would. I would still be friends with him/her, but I don't know.

Now, don't take this as anti-transgendered. As I put it, "hate the act, not the person." Its fine to hate the act, but don't hate your friend. Be supportive, and be a true friend.

The way it is getting described it is as if this person is changing there whole personality and who they are to become a woman because they want to be that. So to me it is that they are no longer the friend you knew, they never were, if they wanted to eb a woman, adn felt they were one but were acting as a man adn now are embracing who they feel tehy are, they're a new person, why not become friends with this new person. Your friend is gone, but a new person who could easily become a friend is right there.

It all depends on if I like this new person. I'm not friends with everyone, and in this case making friends with this new individual might just be an attempt at making friends with the hollow shell they once were.

I do have plenty of female friends though. If he can successfully transition from 'one of the guys' to 'one of the girls', then there might still be a salvageable friendship, but he could never be 'one of the guys' again.

are they going to be a new individual though?
or will the gender that they are going to live under better repersent them as the individual they have always been?