Well altmer will still need one heck of a magicka boost or else they will have to completely rethink the race as its downside is realy nasty compared to everyones upsides.

Birthsigns were pretty much useless so there were two options:
Cut them out or make them more useful even in later levels. The second one goes against the "don't screw up your character at the very beginning" thing, so they were cut.

I'd still like to see the Atronach effect in the game in some fashion like a perk, a curse, a quest reward or something.

I can be wrong, but I remember reading it somewhere. It does make kinda sense though. Your skills affect your characteristics as well.
The warrior birthsign gives you more attack power or health or something. This could be given by a certain strong perk or such. It makes kind of sense.

But it doesn't really matter, I doubt you would know how the warrior constellation looks without looking at uesp ^^

I saw birthsigns as kind of a natural ability that helped your character at lower levels and as your character advanced he would rely less and less on his natural talents and more on his acquired skills. In that sense, your character is not ruined if you chose the wrong birthsign and it doesn't matter if you birthsign loses importance as you reach higher levels. I see no good reason for cutting them out.

I wonder how many of the OB birthsigns were taken, actually. A good number of them just seemed silly. A small number had huge effects on things, and then there were the attribute bonus ones... except for the "game changer" birthsigns, they really didn't seem to do a great deal.

(I took Thief on basically every character I ever made.)



....that said, it's nice when there are some amount of "how you set up your character" decisions to make at the start of a game. Regardless of what they're called. :shrug:

I'm actually pretty pleased at all the information brought out so far. I wasn't a big fan of the birthsigns personally, though a nice personalisation option some were beyond useless and the powers that came with it were things I never really used.I always picked the steed because I wanted my character to hurry up already so I could get out of that dreadfull sewer.

As for seasons, that there are none actually makes sense to me. I can't recall where but I believe it was stated somewhere that the world of the Elder Scrolls was a flat world. If that's the case there actually can't be any seasons.
Our seasons change because we live on a round world that rotates on a tilted axis causing our seasons to change depending on how the earth is positioned in terms of the sun. If you had a flat world that doesn't rotate around a tilted axis ( which I'm pretty sure is the case) you CAN"T have seasons.
It wouldn't be difficult to impliment this, no, but it takes a lot of time to do so and has a lot of room for error. Scripting whise there are a lot of variables you would have to implement. What part of the world changes, how does it change, weather conditions, wind conditions (dynamic snow people, wind also changes with season which has effect on the dynamic snow stuff), colour schematics (which trees and plants change how) and because I know the player base it will also mean they'll have to implement the people's reactions to the seasonal changes. They would have to add variables to the NPC's schedules. And anyone who has ever scripted before knows the less script the easier the scripters life becomes. Having one little dot on the wrong place could mean the entire thing not working and it's a pain to actually find the error because it's not clear right of the bat that you've put a dot on the wrong place and which dot it is.

IF it rains go stay inside and do A,B or C; add speech code A
IF it's dry or misty go do D,E or F; add speech code B
IF it snows go do G,H or I; add speech code C is much easier and quicker to add than

IF it's spring and it rains go do A,B, or C; add speech code A
IF it's spring and it's dry or misty go do D,E or F ; add speech code B
IF it's spring and it snows go do G,H or I; add speech code C
IF it's summer and it rains go do J, K, L; add speech code D
IF it's summer and it's dry or misty go do M, N, or O; add speech code E
etc etc etc

It's just too much work that barely get's noticed. Sure it's fun if it's in but I rather have they focus on more important stuff.

Um people... remember ONLY ob and mw had birthsigns arena and daggerfall didnt.

That's the rub. Either make them significant enough that it could severely impact your character (for good or bad) early on, or make them weak enough to be mostly useless.

Considering that how in Oblivion, you didn't even pick a birthsign until more than half way through the tutorial dungeon, what's the functional difference between picking a birthsign for a bonus, and picking your first level-up perk?

Simplified even more then minigame?


Well at last not depend on player skills only.

Birthsigns:
Source: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2011/04/18/skyrim-character-creation-guide/
Info: "Other decisions, like Birth Sign, have been removed, so players needn't worry about making a game-ruining decision within the first hour."
Game-ruining decision within the first hour?
How about making all Birth Sign useful instead removing them completely?
Does thats hard to release in the first hour thats Altmer Barbarian with The Lady Birth Sign combination was really flawed by design at chargen stage, for thats need hour?
What will be next races?
Make Birth Sign use leveled powers has more options will be much more better way then just complete remove them from game.


Well does thats mean invisible rats thats stuck somewhere in mesh still trigger Epic music, just because somewhere near of player or Battle music will triggered if enemy aware of player presence and now in line sight of player and then will be battle music triggered?

Well maybe there will be different climate in regions so nature will be different.

Thanks for posting all that hlvr!



Glad the wheel is gone. Not worried about whatever they've replaced it with, and in this case, simplified is good. I didn't mind lockpicking in either Morrowind or Oblivion, so I doubt Skyrim's will bother me.



I've really got my fingers crossed for mounts... they really add a lot to exploration & travel for me. Come on guys, Ocarina of Time did this well over a decade ago. I'm also one of the few "hardcoe" people who wouldn't mind some kind of dragon riding, and that was an interesting comment indeed.



I won't miss 'em much.



I was hoping for dungeon- and region-specific themes and no battle music, but not a big deal.



Oh well. It was unrealistic to hope for seasons.

I'm going to miss the Atronach birth sign.

There's a lock picking mini game so there better be an unbreakable lock pick for those of us who despise that mini game. Not too worried since Oblivion had one but the quest might fall under the radiant system and be hard to find.

Glad they trashed the speech wheel, it was awful.

Assassin's Creed Brotherhood has some interesting things they could do with horses, hopefully there are no dragon mounts.

For the love of God, no. This item made the entire security skill obsolete. You have a security of 5, and trying to open a Very Hard lock, no problem.

I would like to see a combination minigame skill level system. At a certain level, you no longer need to play the mini-game to open a very easy lock. If I have a skill of 100, stop making me waste my time on a 1 tumbler lock. I can do that one. Alternatively, if I am so far below the lock level, I should have some penalty (either limited number of chances, or greater chance that failure will "break" the lock.)

The mini game made the security skill useless, not the lock pick. I personally can pick any lock in Oblivion with any security skill 1-100. Auto attempting put the chance back in my character's hands.

Just pretend your level1 perk is your birthsign.

Actually, birthsigns gave no benefit at all. A skill increase and some gave you a pretty crappy spell that was easily surpassed by anything you could buy in Balmora. Your definition of complexity is definitely not the same as mine. Complexity doesnt mean useless clutter.

Battle music? Uhg, one more mod to add to the list (Thanks for the CK though to fix these things!). No seasons is not good but we didnt have it before so im not heartbroken.

No more wheel of lies? Sounds good to me.

Atronach, Mage and Apprentice did! All the rest of them, though, were very forgettable. I never understood why there weren't equivalents for the magicka signs for health and fatigue - that could have been something... I mean, attribute boni could be good for the first few levels, but the once per day powers were total crap. They could have been made better, but if the devs make perks really diverse and useful, I'll forgive them.

Nice job of pulling that together hlvr, thank you.

:tes:

:tes:

Excuse me in advance, but that reasoning is a bit childlike; let me do the same "we took out every skill so that you can't take a game-ruining decision within the first our".

Honestly, how can a "mistaken" birthright ruin your game? It has no sense at all. There aren't wrong birthsigns as there aren't right ones, and even if you chose the Aprentice being a warrior that won't ruin your game at all for sure; birthsigns weren't at all overpowered (but The Atronach, of course)

I played docens of games choosing non-stealth-birthsigns playing a thief, mage birthsigns being a warrior, etc...

The only explanation I find about taking them out is that most of them use to improve stats and give specific spells, so since there are no more stats, and all spells are "new", it's easier to just take them out of the game.

Quick edit: I don't if it said before, but since we don't choose anything but the race, I'm not sure if races will still be "unique", with racial bonuses, etc... If that's not the case, taking birthsigns out is a bad decission 24/7 I like a lot the perk system, but taking all out just for them... doesn't make any sense to me.

No more speech wheel: Yay.
Lockpick minigame: Boo. But as long as there is still the quick pick, based on my security skill, that's fine.
Horses: Of course I want them in.
Dragon riding: No thanks.
Battle music: either have it modded out, or turn off the music altogether.
Seasons: I was not expecting seasonal changes anyway.
Birth Signs: *sigh* . I liked them for many reasons. Racial bonuses better remain in. And if they do, I don't see why choosing a race is not a game breaking decision later on but choosing a birth sign might be.

I'm going to assume that racial bonuses are In, and hopefully have a much greater effect this time around.

The thing is birthsings were pretty useless (and if you ask me, didn't really made much sense), but if they would make all of them unique and useful, you could've ruin your character at the beginning more easily. If you're a first time player, and you've chosen Atronach you would be greatly confused why magic doesn't work like it should be.
Also, it's hard to call them "unique part of TES" when 4 minutes after the character creation I forget which one I've actually picked.


And I don't understand this "eww, music during combat is so bad" movement. The last thing I want to hear during combat is the peaceful travel music. I know it always started whenever even a rat saw you from miles away, but they've already fixed that in Fallout 3, I'm sure it will be better here. For example whenever you're closer to an enemy the music would turn more ominous, and the main battle theme would only start when you've landed the first hit.

I agree... it could almost be like the traits in Fallout: NV. granted not as much a give and take as that, but the same concept. give us a lesser power, or a spell... or something at least. how is moving a little faster, as opposed to carrying more, going to ruin your game? you can counteract them later if you wish, and its more of a preference thing anyways. it doesnt hinge on whether or not youre a mage or thief or warrior. if you just stay away from bonuses like magicka and melee damage... and things like that, theres no reason to completely cut out something like birthsigns.

What's the point of birthsigns if there are no attributes?

I will miss birthsigns, but only as flavor, since the mechanics are different and they would be odd to implement in a meaningful way. That said, I suspect that with a month of the release of the creation kit, there will be at least five mods adding birthsigns back in as perks for PC players.