@futrtrubl: Shouldn't be with the OBSE versions.

I didn't know about the OOO/MMM compability plugins until now, the 1.3.02 version only had the ESPs for LITE and Regular.

I'm not sure if that was mentioned anywhere in the front page, but if not, it might be worth adding that the 1.2 ver needs to be downloaded for the patches (probably is already there, and I just missed it).

What do the OOO/MMM plguins do anyhow?

(Hopefully nothing major that I've been missing out on D:)

@SinDS: Just a bunch of faction related fixes and such. Generally nothing really too major.

Version 1.3 Released
I've finally got round to completing some updates and am now able to get 1.3 out of its beta

Thank you for the update!!!

btw I just saw this in the readme and on tesnexus:




Could you tell us what the rest of that last sentence is?

@Mercer Meka: It shouldn't be there. I think my mind just wondered.

Version 1.4 Released



This should be the last version now using the original persuasion overhaul code. The next version (2.0) should be the new system that will make it less of a clickfest on the same option each time assuming no major bugs turn up that need fixing immediatly.

:touched:

What is really, really wrong with the current persuasion overhaul: the inability to read facial expressions.

What I mean is that as silly as the mini-persuade game was: where you could only make one of four choices of responses and HAD to make all of those four choices each round, where you could raise disposition ridiculously easy ? there was at least the ability to read the facial expressions of the NPCs.

This is important because non-verbal communication is really more than half of all real life communication. The seemed to have been removed with PO and replaced with a noble attempt to map out other persuasion factors that are mostly based on real world factors that have in turn been dehumanized by the simple fact that they are now just another set of rules that are to be memorized ('oh an orc ? I should boast more').

With the original mini-game you could tell by placing your cursor over the joke area that telling that joke is not going to work because most likely the NPC is just not the joking kind. That made sense. Having to then boast, admire, and threaten after each joke did not.

Then inability to read facial expressions is one of the strongest indicators of Autism. People who suffer from Autism generally tend to not look at the eyes when they talk to someone and instead prefer looking at the mouth. The eyes have many more muscles that can communicate emotion than the mouth and hence Autistic persons tend to miss many emotional queues that can make their lives difficult (as well as the lives of those around them).

Persuasion overhaul did away with the ability to read expressions and in many ways makes it so that your character has Autism and can only increase their skill through a set of rules being memorized ('oh wait I shouldn't have threatened that Nord'). Sadly the computer industry is rife with persons who suffer from Autism and many studies show that video game fanatics suffer as well. Let's do something about that!

I understand that there is a lite version but the readme is unclear how much is lost by returning to the mini-game wheel. Can anyone clarify what is lost for me. So the request is the return of facial expressions and the inclusions of greater difficulties based on social norms already included.

thanks

@Psymon: With version 2.0 that starts changing as I start changing Erics formula. I think you will like version 2.x better than 1.x. It wont have mini game facial recognition as it would be difficult/impossible but your character will automatically try to read the npcs emotions to determine what appears to be a bad idea based on what he sees during the current conversation he is undetaking. Its not as simple as that but 2.0 will be effectively combining some of the best features of the wheel and PO together.

I wanted to keep the 1.x series effectivly still Erics work with just balance and improvements and features he planned as this mod is supposed to be the OBSE version of PO and many people do like this current system.

In the lite version all the modifiers from PO are pretty much still there just they are applied to the wheel which makes the mini game a little more difficult in some cases. THe reduced starting disposition factions is included and mercentile affected bribes. So you get most of the nicetys of PO but keep the disadvantages that come with the speechcraft wheel.

Good luck on this. This is still one of my favorite mods!

Well I'm no modder so I understand my ideas may be ungrounded in experience.

That said - how about a version where the wheel is kept but the results are somehow different: read out like text int he current version.

-or-

An option to see the facial expressions based on the wheel. It just seems that with the current system facial expressions mean nothing. IRL, barring Autistic shortcomings, We can pretty much assess like/dislike and how to talkto people non-verbally.

If you're really interested in the latest research on this. Check this out: http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge266.html

Facial expressions are the key to recognizing likeability. How many different tones can be used to say: 'Oh, hi it's you.'

Anyway thanks for listening and the work that you do.

@Psymon: Unfortunately changing how the wheel works is difficult because it is hardcoded. If i wanted to use the wheel with completly different functionality I would have to re-create the speechcraft menu and then use OBSE to make it work. Not sure if this would be still to difficult in OBSE but its definatly closer to the realms of reality than it used to be.

Thanks I will have a look at the research at some point. I may get some new ideas

I upgraded from 1.3 to 1.4, and I noticed that when I talked to an NPC who I had zero disposition with and entered the persuasion menu, I'd get a message saying "NULL: disposition 0" at the top of the screen and the message for the apprentice perk wouldn't show at all. I didn't try talking to any other NPCs.

Regardless, I went back to 1.3 because not being able to raise disposition at zero without bribing breaks the mod in my opinion. It's something that did seem like the logical next step, and I thought about suggesting it, but I find that in practice it means I'm simply never going to attempt persuasion with a merchant or other important NPC without very high Speechcraft because a bribe to get my foot back in the door is over 250 gold.

@OnmyojiOmn: You are using OBSE 16? Only reason I can see that the perk message would fail to show.

Although its rare of npcs to start off the bat at 0 disposition. It just means you need to be more careful in persuading because if you make the npc hate you they will never want to really speak to you again. I might need to increase the skill rate a little as balance for this new feature.

I could consider adding a system so that over time the disposition of non-evil npcs increases back to 1 over a period of time because you have left them alone so will give the benefit of the doubt that your not that annoying. I need to complete PO 2.0 first though because balance will change a bit and is going to be less of a problem in there.

I am using OBSE 16, yes. I have at least a couple other mods that use it and I've noticed no problems. The NPC I mentioned was someone I had struck out with before I upgraded.

Hi, is this still being worked on? I was wondering for the configurablity for v2.0 if you could add an option to decide if you want to be able to persuade people who are at 0 disposition or not. Is it correct that uou could still persuade people in Morrowind at 0 disposition? (haven't played Morrowind in a long time)

hey StrategyMaster.
great mod. i've always enjoyed Persuasion Overhaul since its initial release.
thanks for making it.
anyway....

i'm not sure if this is in-scope for this mod:
i thought it odd that npcs are willing to spread rumours to strangers or those with low dispositions to them.

i was wanting on creating a small mod that would require the player to have a disposition of 40 or over before the npc will spread the rumour to them.
but you may consider this functionality as part of Persuasion Overhaul.

rumour not being readily spread simulates: the player having to convince the npc of divulging any sort of information (important or not).
so...the short chit-chat that rumours were suppose to be (before Persuasion Overhaul) is basically replaced by Persuasion Overhaul's 4 conversation options.

also, it may be beneficial to give some personality bonus (for e.g. + 20) to the player while in a pub.
this simulates the player being sociable and the npcs being more relaxed in social settings.

anyway, just thoughts.
cheers!

@JagerX: configurability is one major element this mod is still missing and i am aware of it.

@kuertee: So in fact you think rumors should be a sort of bonus for persuading people. Thats a very interesting idea to consider.

bug report for v1.3.
(unsure about this bug in v1.4, sorry.
i didn't want to upgrade because i wanted to still be able to raise my disposition to those with a disposition of 0 towards me without magic.)

anyway, the bug:

Janus Hassildor attacks the player during the Ulterior motives Mages guild quest.
This was caused by the change to the relation between the Janus Hasildor vampire faction and the Player vampire faction from the default of 20 to 10.
Changing this back to 10 fixed the problem.

my original post here: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1013412&view=findpost&p=14658273

thanks for this good mod, SM!

Rumors would be a great bonus - well other than the vital information as to what defines Colovia or where the Nibenay basin is.

become somebodies best friend to learn that?

hahaha! yeah. unfortunately some rumours non-informative while others are sensitive to a point that they shouldn't be spread to a passer by.

my ideas for rumours as bonuses to the persuasion mini-game are these:

• < 40 disposition = no rumours.
  the 4 persuasion mini-game topics should be what rumours are currently used for - to simulate small talk.
  
• temporary + 20 (or 30) personality while in an inn.
  this should raise disposition automatically so that those that usually don't spread rumours will.
  if not, then the mini-game can be used to make others spread the rumours.
  
• i've always felt that < 40 disposition = stranger, >= 60 = friend.
  
• i don't think i'll be comfortable in talking about another person (e.g. who the owner of the shop next door is or does) to a stranger.
  
• this should prevent the player from going to each npc and activating rumour for the sole purpose of dimming the button.
  
• this should give value to spending time in inns.
  
• forced role-play.

Any chance of this getting uploaded again? I can't seem to find anywhere to download it. I'd really appreciate it! Thanks in advance.

What do you mean? I just downloaded it yesterday.

Oh, wow. I'm so stupid. Sorry.

Well, thanks for a great mod!