"I do not trust you enough to talk about that..."
-10 seconds later
"OMG I luv u liky liky liky! you my BFF!!!"

sound familiar?
I think the whole speechcrafting thingy needs an update, how bout u?

Anything but Oblivion's persuasion system.

"People should love me for who I am."

Oblivion's minigame could be fun at times, but it was way too easy, and it made the speechcraft skill pretty useless.

I'm in favor of something closer to Morrowind's system, with a diceroll on success/failure based on luck, personality and speechcraft.

Yeah, I think it needs an update. But how? Your personality and/or intelligence stat should help you somehow figuring out what this person would be most subjective to (which is what the initial hover now achieves). I don't really play much else, so how is this handled in other games?

It could be based on the same system as now, with the inclusion of a guess button, where your ability to guess right is driven by personality and/or intelligence. Your speechcraft skill determines the power of the upcoming change. And perks have the same as now, where extra rotates is a save call where you just say something random. But when I click "Admire" or it is selected by the guess button, I want to see the line I'm saying:
[Admire] Well, you look..... fine...
So here, not a very strong one, eh
Could have a lot of fun with this one throwing in all kinds of random chit chat that might work, or not.

Other than that, no, sorry. Not able to come up with something actually good.

...and something that made sense would be nice. I don't recall the last time I tried to convince somebody to help me by first threatening them, then making a joke, then giving them a compliment, then whatever the last option is... but I think I would probably end up getting a slap if I tried it.

I would prefer something that is mostly stat-based, has certain 'scripted' dependencies (some NPCs prefer if you are wearing nice clothes, for example), and has various 'common-sense' moments that demand a tiny bit of player skill (not minigame-style skill, but just stuff like knowing not to make a joke when the angry old woman is waving her broom in your face, not to try threatening the eight-foot Orc with the broadsword, stuff like that).

Bribery could be augmented with a 'gift' system maybe, only works on characters who are already friendly. And some characters should be insulted if you try bribery, leading to a disposition drop. Especially those already a lot richer than you, and a few particularly noble guards.

In Morrowind you could taunt people, it was great.

I want an emote system like Fable. Also I want to be able to hold people's hands. Oh and change what people call me. How about a dog that changes breeds depending on how good/evil you are!

Just kidding. Bring back Morrowind style persuasion that depended more on skill than anything else.

id be happy if they simply didnt have any minigame. you could have choices between intimidate and flatter and maybe something else but it should be based on

race.......some races just hate other races

job or specialty..........mages should like other mages

social status......nobles dont like commoners

guild status.........if you are well known thieves guild you should get a big loss when talking with certain guards or members of the mages guild etc but a boost to other thieves and beggars etc.

how drunk you are...........applicable only to nords since they are almost always buzzed if not completely sloshed

your attire............rich snobby people wont talk with you unless you are wearing good gear. fighters will like you more if you show up win heavy armor instead of a mages robe.

I agree that it should be mostly a reflection of your speechcraft / personality.

Maybe 80% skill and 20% persuadable.

Remove disposition meter
No minigame
Add different statuses for NPC
You can only use one type of speechcraft to the same NPC within 24 hours
Status resets to match your reputation every 24 hours
Taunt angers them -> some attack at dislike, others at hate
Intimidate scares them -> they could give you information or lie to you ( greater possibility that they tell the truth if they fear you )
Admire makes them like you -> they will give you information (like=less important information, love=all information)
Speechcraft level affects can you get them to level 1 or 2, and will you be successful, fail or have the opposite effect

According to your reputation they can be
-Distrust (harder to convince)
-Indifferent (easier to convince)
-Trust (get necessary information to get quests done, but not all information)

Taunting makes them
1-Dislike
2-Hate

Intimidate makes them
1-Scared
2-Fear

Admire makes them
1-Like
2-Love


Or something like that

Oblvion's system was horrible. I would be up for a minigame. Maybe something like hacking game in Bioshock 2.

That would be wonderful. I would love that.

Personally I would just want the persuasion to be piss easy because I don't really care about people liking me apart from when it has to do with quests or trade. I'm not really a person that gets immersed in the world by talking to people so I prefer it being quick and painless so I can get back to my adventuring
It would be a good idea to have different difficulties for it though so everyone can be satisfied.

No minigames to substitute actual dialog.
I want the taunt / admire / intimidate kind of options integrated in the dialog.

Also would like them to change the ridiculously overpowered charm spell... and replace it with a wider variety of manipulative spells (seduce, suggest, rage, etc...) only usable during dialog.
THAT could be implemented as a short and simple minigame during dialog so using that kind of magic doesn't always work and theres a risk involved using it.
Getting caught trying to use magic on a merchant or a guild member should be illegal or get you expelled.

What about a minigame that once you complete it successfully.......it will open up other dialogue options?

Something new, Morrowinds seemed weird and hard to get, oblivions was plain annoying and stupid, so something new and creative

*brain explodes*

Ever played Larry Magma [censored] Laude? Don't do it because it svcks, but that had a hilarious real-time dialog system.
It basically was a little side scrolling action game at the bottom of the screen and you had to take the green icons to say charming things, but if you accidentally took the red icons you would say idiotic things.

That was pretty funny, don't want that kind of crap in my TES though.

edit: lol, why did they censor that word. It's just Latin for "with". ^^

Probably has something to do with the word it shares all three letters with in English. Just another way I won't ever be able to use my Latin.

I personally want something new. Morrowind was impossible, Oblivion was effortless.

My preference is for a mini-game-esque solution, but certainly not the one from Oblivion.

My idea would be more along these lines:
Aside from Rumors and the usual options, there would be a Negotiate option which would bring up a number of randomly generated (from a finite list) potential negotiating ploys.

These could include phrases to convey the following: Flattery, Intimidation, Conning, Bribery etc etc but would be phrased more appropriately like: "We can do this the easy way or the hard way."
If each NPC had particular ratings (Aggression, Honesty, Lawfulness, Bravery etc) then each NPC would react in different ways to the different phrases.

There would be a random element to the reaction which would be influenced by Speechcraft. For instance a cowardly character might respond to intimidation well, but extra well to a player with high Personality and Speechcraft. Meanwhile a lawful character may react poorly to intimidation (calling guards if necessary) but not so poorly or even positively with a high speechcraft (though not as well as using a more favoured approach such as flattery).

Additionally, to help the player make the correct decision for negotiation, the NPC could display their 'likely' reaction on their face (similar to the Oblivion mingame) but with an error, dependent on your personality or speechcraft. Lower speechcraft would result in more variation in the error, whereas high speechcraft the reaction would be largely accurate. That way, a 'oaf-ish' player might 'misread' a negative reaction as a positive reaction and choose the wrong approach.

Each negotiation attempt would be limited to once per day. Thus if you intimidated, you couldn't then bribe etc etc. However, characters with higher stats could have multiple attempts each day depending on mastery level.

Finally, normal conversation options (questy stuff) could be approached in this manner, giving the player more opportunity to define their personality. I found in Oblivion there were only a very few 'moral' choices to be made which was disappointing.

***

As a side note, I think Charm needs to be toned down, as it basically negates the need for Speechcraft entirely. Instead, I would probably have a rating on NPC's which is 'negotiatability' which charm improves. This would be a modifier which improves gains and reduces losses in disposition rather than a blanket bonus.

As long as it takes into input on my actual skill.

That minigame made it to easy to level up that skill and I could easily persuade most people at a low level.

I'll just stick to a bunch of speech options with skill checks.

If they have a better way I'd like to know.

No minigames under any circumstance.

I'm sure that's all it meant in the title of that game too, wink wink, nudge, nudge.

People should love me for who I am!!

But, seriously, I would prefer Speechcraft to be more like Speech in Fallout 3/New Vegas, along with options to charm, taunt, intemidate and bribe, too. No minigames, though.

This one goes out to Keltic Viking

I have an idea which would keep the Oblivion system intact because I believe it's on the right track.

First off, I created a character in Oblivion with speechcraft as a major skill. Useless yes, but only because of other opportunity. The issue wasn't that speechcraft and it's mini game were worthless, but once I;

Completed quests,
Did favors,
Earned enough gold to bribe,

The skill and minigame fell out of favor.

The lack of NPCs who's disposition actually needed to be raised either for important information or optional quest paths was an issue as was the fact that after a few good deeds their disposition skyrocketed.

Next, once I was wealthy enough, bribing was all it took until I maxed their disposition.

I have a simple fix to this situation.

1. Tone down the amount of favorable disposition points earned through questing. I understand people will like you for murdering a bandit outside the city walls, but not enough to worship you.

2. The speechcraft mini game was good IMO. It might have ruined flow, but the problem was the available bribe.

- With bribing, you should only be able to PROPOSE a bribe after you reach a "chatable max disposition." By that i mean you either must do enough favors, pass speech checks or play the minigame to an initially lower maximum at which bribing becomes an OPTION.

- Once the "chatable max" is reached (determined by your deeds, personality and speechcraft skills) and a bribe proposal is available, MAKE THE BRIBE A RISK.

In all walks of life and throughout time bribes have either been looked upon favorably or offensively.

Give the NPC who's at their "pvssyd max" a chance to either raise their disposition even further with a bribe, or drastically lower it with a failed bribe, at which the player is either locked, or must revisit the NPC at a later date.

Give me a fishy stick for that plz. =)

I think the entire minigame should be removed.
It wouldn't be very realistic if you couldn't try to bribe someone when he doesn't like you that much.

Making the bribe a risk would be good, because not everyone likes to be bribed (I don't. Makes me feel cheap... no matter how much they gave me)

I realy think we have to think "outside the box" with this one.
There should be a brilliant way to implement morrowinds system in an all new jacket, making it challanging, but not confusing

(No fishy stick mate, I don't have the link right now. And you only get one when you make your first post )