Hey Phitt and tejon,

Now that I have gotten home and had a chance to check this out... man! How cool! The INI really does give you fine-grained control over these actions, so you can pretty much do or not do as much as you want. That in itself makes it golden... thank you!

And now, of course, for the inevitable suggestion. I have but one for you to consider: suppose casting before/after running used Intelligence and Willpower as modifiers instead of Agility and Speed? Here is my reasoning... Mages don't really need to develop Agility and Speed, especially if you get rid of vanilla leveling. But besides that, it seems that as one became more skilled as a spell-slinger, one would require less concentration and focus to do the same things. Thus, one might be able to do things like recover more quickly after casting a spell, or require less time to prepare for casting. What do you think?

Anyway, this is another awesome addition to the OB modding world... thanks for the effort to integrate and INI-fy! (INI-fy?)
veg

Awesome Phitt, I'll make sure to grab it as soon as I come back. :goodjob: :goodjob:
These tweaks are all things that bothered me, but without really noticing them.

Hehe... Phitt brought this up, actually, and I talked him out of it. Here's why.

First: it's not casting that's the problem, it's running. You never fail at casting. (Well, unless you use Fizzle or a similar mod... which is based on Intelligence/Willpower.) What you fail at is coordinating your upper body with your lower body. That's clearly a function of Agility. Speed can arguably help too, if you can get the spell off between strides so you don't really HAVE to coordinate them. But no matter how hard you try, you can't keep all your limbs where they're supposed to be during vigorous action just by thinking about it. (In fact, thinking about it is likely to distract you even more.)

In a nutshell, some people can't walk and chew gum at the same time. And it's not gymnasts, runners, dancers or martial artists who have this problem.

And second:

Mages are the most powerful characters in the game, start to finish, hands down. And rogues are probably the weakest.

...what's this? A mechanic that doesn't affect rogues much, but is a bit harder on mages?

That is an excellent point, and one I had not considered... Makes perfect sense when you put it that way.


No argument there!

Main question: Is this now the vehicle for these mods or will you also be updating the individual ones as well?

The main reason I want to know is so that I can jump on board now. I only use half of them so glad that they can be turned off.

And for anyone looking for the Frans no backwards running penalty remover esp it is found on the texnexus page for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17621. The good news is that it is a mergable mod (with bashed patch) and does not eat a mod slot.

Hopefully, if Frans gets reconfigures all that MOBS/Lyrondor stuff can be made optional or even just taken out.

I know this is off topic but I can run backwards.

Thanks for the link, will add it to the mod description so people can turn off Fran's backwards running.

I won't update the individual mods. They're ok as they are so I will leave them on Nexus in their current state. Even though some of them were significantly improved in PPP (mainly Damage Multiplier and No Running while using Bows or Spells). I will add a link to PPP in the description so people don't use the single mods unless they really don't care about the rest or any of the improvements.



Not exactly sure what you mean, but if you mean 'I can run backwards in real life so this mod is not realistic' then do the following:

1. Travel to India.
2. Buy 100 pounds of lead and put it in your backpack.
3. Go into a thick wood with lots of plants and debris on the ground.
4. Wait for a tiger.
5. Try to run backwards.

Of course you can still run backwards for a few seconds before you fall over and get eaten by the tiger. There is a mod that lets you fall over when you collide with objects while running backwards. But whether you can run as long as you want to eventually fall over or whether you can only run for a few steps before you go into walk mode is a gameplay decision imo. Personally I think while it is more realistic it is also pretty annoying if you fall over. I play in 1st person exclusively so it is basically a random chance - not something I want in my game (apart from the fact that due to hardware limitations there is much less debris on the ground than there would be in real life). Instead I limit the backward movement right from the start. My character can't fall over that way and everything is fine.

Apart from the realism aspect there is also the gameplay aspect. Being able to run backwards without any limit is an exploit in Oblivion. You can kill every enemy that has no ranged attack that way (at least if you don't use my Deadlier Creatures mod) without getting hurt. That is not realistic either, but it's a game and games have limitations. I don't like exploits and I like them even less if they are as obvious and silly as this one.

But, like I already said in another post in this thread, it's a matter of taste. That is what the ini is for.

Had phun with the name, I see. (Hah, see what I did there? HAH. Hahahah...*insane muttering*)

I'm guessing this doesn't play nice with MMM or OOO.

I think that you should include this tweak in your mod, because yeah, with 3x damage multiplier and bows it feels like cheating What do you think?

I start to wonder whether you really have to put 'this mod works with MMM, OOO, Fran's or FCOM' in every mods description. Maybe there should be a FCOM badge you can put on a mod, like 'FCOM Certified'. Isn't it enough to have a compatibility section that doesn't mention any of these mods? I mod this game for long enough to mention obvious incompatibilities with extremely popular mods like FCOM or any mods that are part of the FCOM package. So no, this mod does play nice with MMM or OOO. Or Fran's. Or FCOM. Or Warcry. Or Bob's Armory. Or Lost Spires. Or Midas Magic. Or...

EDIT: @RebelMax: I can make a small esp that changes the settings. I think there are lots of mods that make changes to the sneak damage multipliers so I don't want to include it in the main mod.

Hey, it doesn't hurt to make sure. Enough modders don't list OOO or some other popular mod as incompatible, and sure enough it doesn't work or causes some game breaking bug. Just bein' cautious.

A question for you Phitt.


Do you know if Damage multiplier would conflict with the workings of these two mods?

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23484

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2902

I started playing a Assassin and since he uses both Bows and Blades it would be a shame if i hat to deactivate the Damage Multiplier part ones i install PPP.

If they work together then that would be great, i think they would fit well together for a Assassin(or thief).

They work together without problems, but keep in mind that the damage multiplier multiplies damage no matter what. So it will be vanilla + Archery Rebalance + Mighty Bows * Damage Multiplier. That is probably a bit too much depending on the damage multiplier you choose. I would remove Might Bows, the damage multiplier will take care of the additional damage you want. If you play with 2.5x damage like I do the effect will be the same and bows will still be even stronger due to Archery Rebalance. But best is if you try and see whether you like one shot kills .

and finally someone in all these Bethesda forums to share the same ideas as me..
and me that find myself not welcome in Stealth threads when I claim I dislike JOG Stealth Overhaul... I always thought In was alone

Oblivion XP come to my mind just after having posted my message here, I have tried it sometimes ago but for some reasons (difficult to me to state actually what) I uninstalled; In my Opinion to be used (for a balanced gameplay) it should be highly tweaked (far more than it's defaults settings) and that need more time and more experiments to get the right parameters.

Ah that is great, and i will take your advice and remove Mighty Bows. I like strong attacks, but i do not like one shot kills on later levels, thanks Phitt.

Whee! :twirl: Just been experimenting with double damage, and a few other things. Fun.

Updated the mod to v1.01. Fractional per frame damage is now counted in by the damage multiplier (eg if something does only 0.1 damage per frame like a weak spell with long duration). Also updated the readme to explain the inter-mod communication variable implemented by Tejon. You can now exclude damage done by a script in your mods from being multiplied by the damage multiplier if you like.

EDIT: No need to overwrite the ini if you have v1.0 installed. It is the same as before, you only need the esp.

Minor correction on that: xDMexception is a float, not an integer. Was a long integer in v1.0, but it slipped through the docu-sieve so nobody but me and Phitt knew it existed. Since the rest of the system is updated to handle fractions, I updated that too. The RunScriptLine in the readme is correct, just ignore the "long integer" bit in the paragraph below.

Thanks for all your little fixes, am also using your PTRetro training.

When I started playing I died every time I didn't get the first hit because of the stagger animation. If I got the first hit I staggered my enemy. I read a post about an other complaining about this and downloaded a modd that modified the kf files that affected stagger. Now I believe that the stagger time will be reduced if you have better agility? I am wondering if you see the stager amount and the time it plays (and how little there is at higher levels, I can't remember how it played then) as something that should be addressed? Ofcourse making the game "easier" was never on the agenda for your fixes :hehe:

Actually I will remove the stagger animation replacer and play with vanilla again; lets see how long I can play without getting frustrated out of my skull.

Cheers!

Fixed it in the description here and on Nexus...just copy pasted and didn't think about it, sorry.



Not sure about stagger, I don't have that problem. There are indeed some dangerous enemies with fast and strong attacks that can kill me if I stagger twice in a row (like bears for example), but I usually don't stagger that often. Don't think the stagger time is reduced, but whether you stagger or not might be affected by agility (my char has pretty high agility around 75). Never looked into it. Also, what difficulty do you play on? Moving the slider a few steps up already makes a huge difference, even more so with a high damage multiplier (example: with difficulty at 60% enemies will do 2x damage in vanilla, with a multiplier of 2.5x they will do a total of 5x damage with the same slider setting - which is the same as they do with the slider at 100% (max difficulty) in vanilla). Maybe reduce the multiplier or the difficulty a bit if enemies kill you directly when you stagger. I want the combat to be fast, but not that fast. At least unless the enemy isn't 10 levels above you.

It definitely is. The higher Agility the less stagger. Boosting the chars Agility is one of the "secrets" to survive melee encounters in OOO.

Thanks for your answer!
I will have some time after work on saturday to play and then I will uninstall the stagger replacer. What I remembered was that I used a fairly slow weapon and if I got in the first hit I could stagger the enemy continuously or vice versa. As you say, I was both attacking and being attacked by creatures/NPC's that where powerfull/weak it just felt that at the time it was either me staggering the enemy or me being staggered
And also as you say, it is not really an issue. One should get owned by powerful enemies.
I will now though pay attention to how it plays out; I had been thinking of some kind of "survival instinct" mod that would cut the stagger out after two or three continuously stagger attacks so one could run away - that was the most frustrating part, I couldn't even run :hehe:


Thanks Arkngt!

Thanks again, your mod and answer were much appreciated.

I have an issue which turned out to (apparently) be connected to the Less Knockback settings. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1101878-weird-issue-npcs-and-pc-teleporting-on-hit/. Might be some obvious mistake on my side when changing the settings for it, but not sure what it is really.

Never had this issue.

EDIT: Will try with vanilla settings in my game and see what happens.

EDIT2: Seems like there is a mistake in the ini. The vanilla setting for PPP.KnockbackReduction is not 0.8, it's -0.008. With 0.8 it is no wonder you teleport to the max value of 512 units everytime you get hit. Someone with agility 100 will get 80x as much knockback effect as the worst case in vanilla...lol

Sorry about that. I love uploading new versions just to change a number in a description.

OK, I'll change that. Thanks! The reason I'll try vanilla settings is that I got a bit confused about the connection between less knockback and stagger above. I'd like to keep stagger as it is in vanilla, but I presumed the knockback was rather the slide NPC's/PC make when hit? Anyway, easy enough to experiment around with.

EDIT: BTW, would it be possible to have on/off switches for the separate features, i.e. like set PPP.LessKnockback 1 or 0?