Would any of these changes include being able to alter the damage formula for different types of attacks?

Such as more for melee or archery? or more for NPCs but not PC? just curious.

If you want to revisit the project I'd certainly be nice. I guess you mean the 'Event Handler' functions? That would offer a whole new world of possibilities, although the mod works right now like you said. I've been playing with it since day 1 (obviously) and I didn't encounter any bugs or problems. The only thing that I noticed is that damage from activators is not affected by difficulty and thus becomes overkill with the mod active. Like a spell cast from an Ayleid trap will not do 2x damage if you set the damage multiplier to 2x, it will do 4x damage. In my game that's perfectly ok since I don't use any mods that increase trap damage. It makes traps as dangerous as they should be. But I think OOO increases trap damage by a large amount and with PPP in combination almost all traps will be an instant kill even for high level characters.

And I guess if there is going to be a 2.0 then it would make sense to include 'Creature Damage Fix' just for the sake of completeness.

EDIT: Sorry for not coming back to you with the magic fix stuff, but it's quite hard to wrap my head around all the different mods that I have active right now. I see you've been posting in JRoush's thread(s), that is probably where I would begin to look for a fix as well. And you probably understand much better how his mods work and can be used for fixes than me.



As far as I understand it that should be possible with the event handler functions. You can set different types of damage for different sources since you can specify who attacked whom (and also the weapons the attacker wields) and modify the additional damage depending on that.

Well, good to see my mod has drawed some attention.
Don't worry about permissions of my work, I really don't care for them at all and try to express that creatively (well, more or less) in the licensing part of my readmes. I would be glad if my mod was included in a much broader 'Damage Overhaul' type of mod like this, and maintained by scripters who know their stuff (since I'm an amateur at best)

Problem is I didn't actually do too much playtesting to determine how the game actually calculates the damage you receive from creatures, and also encountered weird stuff like creatures with the PCLevelOffset flag not being recognized as such by the script. So while the script gets the base damage to add to creatures correctly, the leveled extra amount might not be entirely in accordance to the game's rules, and not even the CS wiki seems to be entirely sure about that either.

Edit: It's probably out of scope, but if you could also look into http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1117141-goblins-with-bows/page__p__16410720 I would be most grateful. I even learned how to manipulate arrays and tried to incorporate such a fix in my mod, but to no avail.

Well I'll eargerly await v2.0

PS you dudes rock :mohawk:

Bump.

This is an awesome mod and I would be happy to see an update to it!

don't tell me this is dead!

especially cuz the smaller downloads can't be found and I really want these exploits fixed... actors care and door exploit begone especially are musthaves!

Why are people assuming it's dead? Isn't it finished and working just fine?

nope, as of the latest version issues with the less knockback component are making the PC teleport when he/she hits in melee ( due to a -1 value calculating wrongly iirc ) .

I've been using it for past week or so and I haven't noticed any teleportation. My char is archer but I do use melee attacks sometimes and they work just fine :shrug:.
I would love to see damage multipliers for different types of damage. Also implementing creature fix would be awesome, I just got it and I need to find a minotaur to test it but I smell insta-kill with 2x multiplier, 150% DR and FCOM >>.

reading past pages, it seems this teleport behaviour is only affecting those who try to revert less knockback to vanilla settings. I wouldn't be affected as I wanna use it, but still a bump was needed I guess since there are bugs to iron out, also with damage multiplier it seems. hopefully tejon gets some time to figure it out since it seems like he was the guy handling the scripting here.

phitt and tejon, to both of you awesome modders I offer my thanks. not much I know, but your mods are great

I should have done this a long time ago, but I was lazy (took about two minutes to do it, so I guess I need to be ashamed now). Added an update which fixes the knockback reduction bug that happened when you set the values back to vanilla settings. There is nothing wrong with the damage multiplier and I don't know of any other bugs.

Different damage settings for different types of damage would need a complete rewrite of the damage multiplier script with OBSE v19 functions. It's pretty complicated and I don't want to mess with Tejon's script. If he ever finds the time to implement this I will happily test and upload the new version. And I swear I will upload it as soon as I can in that case.

that's great news! thank you very much Phitt! we don't people getting scared and giving up on mods that get rid of exploits

also, thanx for deadlier creatures. watching my gf almost get killed by a minotaur since she was used to just kiting was priceless

And also possibly include Migck's excellent http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34160 for minotaurs whose weapon damage is lower than unarmed damage? Migcks recently updated it as well!

Sorry for slight OT but thanks for reminding me of that. I just fought Dremoras after adding it and using the option to have it affect them as well and a Valkynaz two-hit-killed my char. Normally, my char can take them on w/o problems but those days are over. Seems fitting as well. :toughninja:

Hey!

I'm loving the mod, though I haven't even had a chance to get into any proper combat to fully see it in action.

I have a suggestion, if you'd consider implementing it. Currently there's a buffer period when you can't run after sheathing your weapon. This makes sense. However, could you check if that weapon is the character's own two hands? 'Cause then it really shouldn't slow him/her down.

Thanks for all your great work!

cc

Hey!

I wanted to ask if you'd consider changing the movement speed of the creatures as well. You shouldn't really be able to outrun a wolf in a straight line... ever. There's also those that your mod doesn't touch, such as deer, so ideally I'd like to have them all upgraded.

Thank you for all your work!

cc

You probably meant to post this in the Deadlier Creatures thread?

But I have to say... believe it or not, you're dead wrong. We didn't ascend to global dominance through our wits alone; we had to survive in the wild long enough to establish cities! Out-of-shape modern nation dwellers aside, humans are the #2 distance running species on the planet, only slightly behind horses. There are a few better sprinters, but vs. top-end humans, wolves are not among them.

Oh, shoot. I thought it was included in this.


The human sprinting world record for 100 meters is 23.35 mph. For 200 meters is 23.31 mph. For 400 20.72 mph. For 1000 is 16.95 mph. You see the trend.

According to an article called "The biological limits to running speed are imposed from the ground up." it may be biologically possible for humans to achieve speeds of up to 35 - 40 mph. So let's assume that actually was a fact at some point.

Now, wolves do run at 35 - 40 mph. So let's not say "ever", but you'd need close to 100 Athletics to do it.

Phitt, apologies for the off-topic

cc

Further apologies for continuing the OT.I think it's worth clarifying what kind of running is being discussed here. Oblivion only has one speed of running, but in real life people and animals run differently according to how long they expect to need to run for. You're talking about human sprinting speeds and the speed of a typical dog's double suspension gait (the full gallop). Sighthounds can, of course run faster: they've been bred for it. It's tough to say whether humans could be bred to run faster, and the history of human breeding programs is a topic best discussed elsewhere. The thing is, neither of these gaits can be sustained for any significant time. On the other hand, tejon is talking about endurance running, and as he said; humans (can) actually do very well with that, both for speed and distance.

In Oblivion, you and your companion dog can run all the way from the semi-tropical port town of Leyawiin to the alpine Cloud Ruler Temple on top of a decent size mountain without stopping for breath. Now are you sprinting or jogging for that? And when a wolf starts chasing you, are you sprinting or jogging? I don't think you're going to get anything desirably close to realism without changing the running mechanisms, which would be hard to deal with for the AI (when does it jog, when does it run) and also goes straight into the problem you see with some mod-added creatures that run down a hilly road and die before they get to the bottom because they keep causing themselves falling damage. Even vanilla deer and wolves frequently kill themselves on steeper slopes.

Vac (has no answers, only complications)

[edit] For some reason I didn't read to the bottom of the thread before responding, so my first paragraph is pretty much what Vacuity said. Second one offers some ideas, tho!


That's quite a bit faster than I thought! But just like humans, they can't keep that up for more than a quick burst. So yes, if there's a wolf within 30 meters of an Olympic gold medalist and they both start running at once, the wolf will probably catch him; the wolf has a good lunge (acceleration) and an impressive top speed. But boost that to 80 meters and even your average every-day jogger might get away, because we're far more efficient at maintaining speed. That sprint is extremely costly to the wolf; their long-distance speed is more like 5 mph. You show a trend of reducing speeds with a few sprint records, but remember that the implied curve is not a simple parabola; the trend flattens back out. A human's distance-running speed averages twice as fast as a wolf's, with the top end approaching three times.

Unfortunately, Oblivion doesn't model short-term fatigue and the options for (safely) adjusting speed on the fly are limited. I've got a hunch the best way to handle this is to set the wolf's intrinsic speed based on what it can maintain (i.e. ~5mph), and give it a speed-boosting, fatigue-damaging potion, lasting maybe 6 or 10 seconds, whenever it (1) is in combat, (2) is running, (3) has a full fatigue bar and (4) isn't currently under that potion's effects. That set of conditions allows you to write the script and forget about it; any balance adjustments can be done by editing the specifics of the potion. (I'm assuming here that creatures in combat have a not-running state; otherwise, parameter #2 might need some expansion.)

I didn't know creatures (wolves in particular) could use potions - or that they had a fatigue bar.

Anyway - I agree with CC that in the wild I'd put my money on a wolf taking down out current best athlete and a pack would make it an easy kill. The fallacy of Oblivion and speed goes for the animals as it does for the player. The ability to run as fast as my Nord does without fatigue is as crazy unrealistic as it is that a wolf could too.

We rule the planet because we use tools and all it takes is one encounter with a mountain lion or bear to remember this.

I've been playing though most of Gothic 3 and it has a much better system of running. The default mode is a light jog, you can toggle walking and sneaking too, and then also you can sprint which is fast, but eats fatigue quickly. No stat for speed - the idea is to work your fatigue bar up. The downside is that it does not, at all, handle encumbrance. I think http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7484 is the only mod Oblivion has that does it similar to this. I think Duke's old fatigue mod did too and did take encumbrance into account. I forget.

This is a fantasy game however and in it one can cast fireballs so ehh running is not going to be realistic with rpg and skills to 100.

Oh, absolutely. Unarmed man vs. lion, bear or angry boar is no contest. But single man vs. single wolf favors the man, assuming the man is in the same relative physical condition as the wolf (outdoor lifestyle, active daily). Wolves are normally pack animals... then again, so are we.

Again, our ancestors did have to survive without tools for long enough to develop them. Total dominance came from intelligence, but as a species in the wild we're still competitive without it.

Anyway...

Yep, check the CS -- all creatures have fatigue. Not sure whether they can actively use potions via AI decision, but I'm 99% certain that they can do so if instructed by a script; isn't that how Vector works?

When you give a man a longsword an armor I'd think that the man would gain an upper hand against the wolf. 1 powerful strike against the wolf and it would probably be down at least that's my line of thinking.

I'll try using this although I disabled the running backwards feature as I'd rather trip in fall as I'm using Duke Patricks Combat Archery already with Deadly Fatigue and both already include settings to make you wipe out when running backwards.

Great concepts, will use and see how much I like them.

What's that?

Sorry got too many things on my mind right now I meant Realistic Fatigue, I disabled all the run features though since I think Realistic Fatigue, MMM wounding and Duke Patricks combat archery already include enough run nerfs.

All the other fixes sound awesome though.