Pick a side. : V - Skyrim

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:37 am

I've added a separate, related poll question on what exactly is meant by 'Empire'. Personally I think there is little doubt, but there is room for interpretation.

We know from The Infernal City that the Empire remained - weakened - after the Oblivion crisis (TIC is set 40 years later), under the rule of the Mede Dynasty. It was not destroyed by the crisis, just weakened. TIC even mentions Skyrim, saying that the new Imperial spying organisation ('The Inward Eyes' if memory serves) dislike assignments there.

And yeah I've never read that book but I did hear someone talking about the Mede Dynasty. I don't think they would be referring to the Mede Dynasty with no prior mention of it in the games. I think since were in Skyrim, the whole game is about Skyrim, that it is referring to the Skyrim Empire. Could be wrong though.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:53 pm

So even though a weakened, due to the The War of Succession, Skyrim Empire decided to join the Cyrodilic Empire they still existed as an Empire. A separate empire.

It's worth noting that the fact it exists as a separate nation/kingdom does not mean it is a separate 'Empire' - the cities of High Rock and Summerset Isle are confirmed to have their own king, and the entire province of Morrowind also has a king - Helseth, separate from the Imperial chain of command, under the Duke. Yet all of these kingdoms fall under the unified banner of the Cyrodiilic Empire. Or did, anyway.

And yeah I've never read that book but I did hear someone talking about the Mede Dynasty. I don't think they would be referring to the Mede Dynasty with no prior mention of it in the games. I think since were in Skyrim, the whole game is about Skyrim, that it is referring to the Skyrim Empire. Could be wrong though.

The Medes are only mentioned in TIC as no TES game stretches that far into the future - the dynasty only comes into existence after the Oblivion crisis. TIC is confirmed as canon, so there's no reason to suspect that the Empire that has been declining for 200 years isn't a Cyrodiilic Empire ruled by Medes (or even a different dynasty by now - the Roman Empire didn't end with the end of the Flavians, for instance).

UESP on Titus Mede:
"Emperor during the 4th era who came to power after the Oblivion Crisis. He is in power during the events of The Infernal City, and is father to Prince Attrebus Mede. Before his reign as Emperor, Titus Mede had been several things, Colovian warlord, a soldier in an outlaw army, and a king in Cyrodiil. He took the Imperial City with less than a thousand men and seized control of the crumbling Empire."

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:50 am

I've added a separate, related poll question on what exactly is meant by 'Empire'. Personally I think there is little doubt, but there is room for interpretation.

We know from The Infernal City that the Empire remained - weakened - after the Oblivion crisis (TIC is set 40 years later), under the rule of the Mede Dynasty. It was not destroyed by the crisis, just weakened. TIC even mentions Skyrim, saying that the new Imperial spying organisation ('The Inward Eyes' if memory serves) dislike assignments there.

No, the empire was indeed destroyed, and Cyrodiil split into Colovia and Nibeneia again, and every province seceded. The Cyrodiilic empire was pieced back together by Titus Mede sometime after its fall. But you are right that the Mede empire is spying on Skyrim, but being assigned there sounds like the equivalent of a german solider being sent to the Russian front in WWII (in other words, it really, really, really, really svcks)

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:13 pm

I have always disliked being forced to side with and aid the Empire in all of Bethesda's games. I would love the chance to fight against it for a change.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:25 am

No, the empire was indeed destroyed, and Cyrodiil split into Colovia and Nibeneia again, and every province seceded. The Cyrodiilic empire was pieced back together by Titus Mede sometime after its fall. But you are right that the Mede empire is spying on Skyrim, but being assigned there sounds like the equivalent of a german solider being sent to the Russian front in WWII (in other words, it really, really, really, really svcks)

How can you seize control of an empire that doesn't exist? I don't dispute that it was/is falling apart. But I maintain that it, at least, still exists and is the shadow of what it was when it was ruled by the Septims - but again, remember that the end of a dynasty doesn't mean the end of an empire.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:09 pm

But you are right that the Mede empire is spying on Skyrim, but being assigned there sounds like the equivalent of a german solider being sent to the Russian front in WWII (in other words, it really, really, really, really svcks)

Or the equivalent of Roman soldiers assigned to defend the Danube from Germanic Barbarians from the North.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:10 am

How can you seize control of an empire that doesn't exist? I don't dispute that it was/is falling apart. But I maintain that it, at least, still exists and is the shadow of what it was when it was ruled by the Septims - but again, remember that the end of a dynasty doesn't mean the end of an empire.

Every place seceded from the empire, and Cyrodiil broke into its two pieces, Colovia and Nibenay. If that's not an empire falling, I don't know what is. Titus Mede then united Colovia under his banner and assaulted the Imperial City, thus reuniting Colocia with Nibenay and created the Mede Empire, which comprises only of Nibenay and Colovia at the point of TIC.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:52 am

Seperatist! I always advocate change... Makes for a more interesting future. Stagnation is death.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:37 am

Seperatist! I always advocate change... Makes for a more interesting future. Stagnation is death.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:30 pm

Hmm, seems like we need dev clarification or more info before knowing one way or another. I still maintain it's the Empire, though.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:34 pm

It depends on what Empire it is. I want to see what happens with Attrebus in the next novel. If it's an Empire reborn from the actions of a wisened Attrebus than I'd probably side with the loyalists. If it's not very nice well then I would not side with the Empire. It's not that I couldn't care less. I don't have enough information to make a choice yet.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:14 pm

i smell another dragon break!...

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:12 am

So...Does anyone know who is running what is left of the Empire at this point? Is it still the Medes?

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:34 pm

The return of the dragons was foretold in the Elder Scrolls and was ushered in by the destruction of the Staff of Chaos (Arena), the creation of the Numidium (Daggerfall), the events at Red Mountain (Morrowind), and the Oblivion Crisis (Oblivion). The last event to unfold before the dragons return was the people of Skyrim turning against each other which is happening at the beginning of the game.

The story for Skyrim begins a full 200 years after the end of Oblivion. The King of Skyrim has recently died (murdered). His death has set off a potential civil war between those who wish to secede the Empire, and those who want to remain.

Dragons start to appear in greater and greater numbers as the game goes on and will eventually culminate with Alduin possibly coming into the world possibly.

Previously a force existed to expel dragons, but only a few people had these powers. These people were the Dragonborn, a set of individuals that were the true dragon hunters.

The Septim line was a prominent Dragonborn line protected by the Dragonguards which eventually became the blades.

After the dragons were banished from the kingdom of Tamriel, the Blades guarded one of the lines of ancestry of the Dragonborn. These were the Septim Emperors, the story of whom has been told in the previous Elder Scrolls games. Now this ancestral line has died out and the Blades were hunted down and killed one by one and now are almost completely gone. Esbern is one of few surviving Blades and acts as a mentor to your hero.

Your hero, the Dovahkiin, may be the last of the Dragonborn.

These Dragonborn's of past have ran thee Empire of Cyrodiil. Alessia, Reman, and Tiber Septim. So maybe I was wrong.

Since I believe the Dovahkiin to be the one to unite the people of Skyrim much like Tiber Septim did when he was known as General Talos before he started the Septim Dynasty, the third Cyrodiil Empire. General Talos met the combined army of Skyrim and High Rock on the field of Sancre Tor. The Skyrim army joined him when they saw him use the thu'um and knew him to be the son of Skyrim and heir to the Empires of Men.

Spoiler

(http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__16838257.)

The Dragonborn have the capability to learn and apply the power of dragons through the language that they speak. They can acquire abilities called dragon shouts; more shouts are acquired by absorbing the souls of slain dragons. There are over 20 unique shouts, and each one of them is formed from three words of power. (Thu'um?)

This will probably be how the player (Dovahkiin) reunites the people of Skyrim. Proving to them he's the true heir to the Empires of Men like Tiber Septim/General Talos did once before when Skyrim Empire joined the Septim Empire.

So I don't believe we'll have a choice to be with or against it. We're going to be the leader or the beginning of the new Empire. A new dynasty for the 4th Era.

The Dovahkiin, maybe the last Dragonborn, will unite the people of Skyrim under a new Empire. But not the Septim Dynasty. That is gone and done with. Like Alessia's and Reman's are gone and done with. It would be the beginning of a new one under the Dovahkiin.

Perhaps I was mistaken, or flat our wrong, with my assumption the empire in question was the Skyrim Empire, the original empire of men and not Thee Empire. Alessia's, Remans, and the latest Septim's.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:42 am

One province does not an Empire make. The King of Skyrim is dead. It is war for control of Skyrim. The loyalist want to remain in the Empire the rebels do not. The war fulfills the prophecy and forshadows the return of Dragons. Will the Emperial Legion be invade Skyrim, I hope so. When you are hip deep in dragons it is hard to remember the plan was to break away from the Empire.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:20 pm

Bah! I've had enough with this empire non sense, it's time to move on.

TO HELL WITH THE EMPIRE!

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:52 pm

Loyalist, everyone wants to be a rebel these days.

Well I laugh at them while the empire runs them into their icetrap they call home.

Then we'll have AT-ATs near the Throat and destroy the rebel bas-- wait wrong universe.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:42 am

My true loyalties lie With Akatosh/Alduin although seeing as I won't be able to manifest anything in game out of that alliance

Long Live the Empire

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:53 pm

I'm tempted to vote loyalist, because, unlike the majority of ya'll, I liked the Septims. The Mede's, not so much, but meh. I don't want Tamriel to be in a War All The Time.
But then, I'm still not 100% sure what empire is still around. So I'm holding my vote for now.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:29 pm

That quote from the GI hub update seems pretty clear to me. There's only one Empire, and that's the Empire; one faction in Skyrim wants out, the other doesn't. Simple.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:15 pm

Down with general Grantius! Hurrah for general...um...what's his name? Olee! Ysmir is with us because he hates the imps too!

No, no, no... you must refer to general Harald :thumbsup:

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:13 pm

That quote from the GI hub update seems pretty clear to me. There's only one Empire, and that's the Empire; one faction in Skyrim wants out, the other doesn't. Simple.

This is how I interpreted the wall.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:49 am

The Empire I've been fighting for the last 4 games.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:24 pm

Well, depends on the character.
I like the Empire, but my first character will be a pure Nord barbarian... So I'm not sure what to do with him yet.

» Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:42 pm

I've decided that my first character will be an Imperial Agent/Diplomat sent to Skyrim either to investigate the growing rebellion in the Provence (if the game starts before the King dies) or to attempt to try to get some of the rebels to change their minds (if the game starts after the King dies).

Somehow I'll end up as a prisoner, but I don't have a reason for how yet because I don't know who's prisoner we're going to be yet.

I'll start the game supporting the Empire, and I'll most likely continue to support the Empire throughout the game, but fighting Alduin will obviously take precedence.