I was just browsing the "Save game cheating" thread, and it got me thinking...what if Bethesda implemented something in Skyrim that either told the player before a pickpocket or stealth-steal whether or not it would succeed? I realize that in Oblivion for the most part you could tell if you were able to successfully steal an object, due to the stealth meter telling you exactly whether or not you were able to be seen (which was certainly an improvement over MW), and I recently read that NPCs will now go into "alert mode" before immediately attacking you in Skyrim, if you are seen in an area you are not supposed to be in. This, to me, is a leap in the right direction, and it makes me wonder if the pickpocketing system could also be improved?

What I mean by that is that in Oblivion, I had a tendency to quicksave before attempting a pickpocket, and immediately quick load if it didn't succeed. Perhaps if successful pickpockets were determined in a more straightforward manner that did not incorporate any RNG into the equation, it wouldn't be so tempting to game the system in the way that I just described. I guess that what I am proposing is some sort of visual object next to sneak on the screen that would tell me whether or not a pickpocket would succeed, and have this be determined by an equation that includes no RNG whatsoever...so for instance...
If P (Player's Sneak Skill) + D (Darkness Level) + L (Luck) + A (Agility) > L (NPC Awareness Level), Pickpocket succeeds, else not

Just an example...but doing this I think would make players less apt to use the quicksave/quickload exploit, and more apt to simply make good decisions on whether or not to pickpocket. Another option would be to add a minigame of sorts where the player can see the variables that go into an NPC sensing the pickpocket, and maybe "bail out" in the middle of the game if it looks like the pickpocket might fail...doing this would prevent the player from being detected by the NPC he is pickpocketing, but not receive any items.

Hopefully they didn't scrap pickpocketing.

I don't think you should know in advance, but I think failure should not mean automatic detection. A critical failure might mean detection, failure just means they think you bumped into them and might on alert now.

What about having it be similar to what is in Assassin's Creed, where your character extends his arm and if the arm connects to the victim the pickpocket is successful. And the way you determine that the pickpocket will fail is if the victim reacts and starts to turn around, which lets you have ample time to cancel the pickpocket.

maybe a real time "mini game" since you can now engage in conversations in real time. once you start the pickpocketing attempt, the npc inventory opens up and you can start taking items. but you have to watch the NPCs reaction to see if you're about to get caught (or simply a bar that fills up as you get closer to being caught) so you can bail anytime before then.

Chameleon 100

Edit: I don't know what I was thinking. :facepalm:

the point of pickpocketing, whether it be in a game or in RL, is to steal items. Now of course there has to be an element of risk to it or else everyone would do it. In RL pickpockets don't succeed every time, often, particularly unexperienced pickpockets, are detected by their target, in those cases a pickpocket needs to be able to run and blend in. Now, granted Oblivion doesn't have any methods of disguises (with the exception of the gray cowl but that doesn't count), which makes getting away once you've been detected difficult, but to lose the chance of being detected would remove yet another level of realism.

Yeah, I am with you on this criticism I think. That said, what was posted above makes sense to me. I haven't played Assassin's Creed so I am not sure how that was handled, but if you can see if a person is going to detect you or not based on their hand position and your own, or some such thing, I think this would be the perfect system for TES. If it fails and it just puts NPCs into alert mode as well, I think that would be a huge improvement as well. Basically, I just think that the system employed in the last two games is not a good one...pickpocket detection as purely an RNG equation just encourages the player to exploit the quicksave/load system, especially since going to jail is such a pain, and there is really no way to control whether or not you are caught.

Also, if like Pyro stated, there is some way to "reblend" into the crowd if you fail at your pickpocketing, this would be fine in my opinion as well. I just don't want to see pickpocketing be entirely an RNG affair in this game like it was in past ones.

Edit: Oh and yes I really hope it is in this game as well. I love giving items to NPCs and then immediately pickpocketing them away from them, stealing NPC's keys and then breaking into their house that night, etc. Pickpocketing is fun and adds a cool element of realism to TES games...I hope it stays in, and improves.

I would like to be able to do a non-fatal knockout attack if sneaking, then i could search their pockets freely and have them wake up in 2 hours (game time) and not remember a thing. but i wont keep my hopes up.

I think it was a bit ridiculous how in Oblivion you could yoink huge swords and pieces of armour from someone's pockets. I think pickpocketing should just be limited to money and keys, maybe an odd scroll or book. And, if you fail a pickpocket, instead of the victim going "OMG PICKPOCKEEEEEEEEEET" and alerting the guards, they could probably just moan at you or ask you what you're doing. Then you could just lie and claim you bumped into them.

I'd really like to see something like this as well. In most games that have sneaking elements nowadays, there are ways to immobilize enemies instead of killing them, while still remaining stealthed. Could be an illusion spell, or poison cooked up through alchemy that you somehow release into the air around the person.

It would look something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8PELGyAVc&feature=related in 3rd person and in 1st person you would just see your arm extending towards the victim.

I don't think you should know before hand whether or not a pickpocket should be successful. That would partially take away the element of being a thief.

maybe when you sneak up behind someone... you see a dial like a metronome going back and forth on the sneak crosshair.

maybe 10% of the dial is red, and a pickpocket is only succesful when you hit A when the dial is overlapping the red area.

adding some kind of minigame to pickpocketing would be better than the old method. I have never found pickpocketing fun thus far because of usually having to reload or kill off the whole town.

I'm not sure why they haven't implemented this yet. It actually makes more sense than anything.

I reckon if you run away from a person fast enough, they won't have time to recognise you.

Here's an idea: Instead of just running for the hills or loading a save whenever you fail a pickpocketing attempt, how about your victim confronts you and you get a chance to persuade them that your hand was not just in their pocket.

I agree, a system where you either succeed or fail would be an improvement to Oblivion's dice-rolls, where you just quicksaved-quickloaded until you got everything anyway.

guaranteed success or fail would be an improvement over letting the random number god pick. Along that idea, you could make it so that all pick pockets get you the item, but you only have so long to get away before they notice something is missing. If you get caught, it would also be nice to talk your way out of it.

I just want to say I love the random number gods even if they do not love me, especially in Battletech and with the 2d6 roll.(will this become a self fulfilling prophecy, only tomorrow will know) Really it is part of what makes an rpg an rpg to me.

I like this idea as well is the non-fatal stealth kill one. But I disagree with the OP that it should be 100% succeed or fail. That takes the element of risk out of it. QL is just a thing you have to resist. It's not a part of the game and you should just try and ignore it if you are a thief. Resist the temptation!

I also agree with the idea of having it in real time and you have to do it quickly or they might notice you.

Maybe off-topic, but would not be wonderful if NPC's thieves also took the opportunity to rob or pickpockets us (for example, when we were sleeping or talking to other npc)? Why your character should be the only one with the possibility of pickpocket?