Pirates at the Tibor Septim Hotel! : IV

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:08 am

Every evening without fail, a group of 4-6 generic pirates show up inside the Tibor Septim Hotel. Some remain there, killing various NPCs (once, I saw the Hotel's owner merchant, dead), while others run outside and attack guards or strangers. I have no idea what mod might be causing this, but could use your assistance in figuring out. Here's my load order:

Spoiler

00 Oblivion.esm

? 01 underdark.esm

? 02 Cybiades.esm [Version 2.0]

? 03 Windfall.esm

? 04 TR_OoT_Main.esm

? 05 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 4.5bSI]

? 06 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm [Version 4.5bSI]

? 07 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]

? 08 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 09 CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm

? 0A TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]

? 0B Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]

? 0C Artifacts.esm [Version 1.1]

? 0D DremoraCompanion.esm

? 0E Fort Akatosh.esm

? 0F StaticAlchemyMod.esm

? 10 CustomSpellIcons.esm

? 11 The Other Spheres Base.esm

? 12 CM Partners.esm

? 13 Toaster Says Share v3.esm

? 14 Oblivion Achievements CORE Version.esm

? 15 TRoN.esp

? 16 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.10]

? 17 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]

? 18 DLCShiveringIsles.esp

? 19 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp

? 1A Advanced_Water_Modification-2734.esp

? 1B Better Bell Sounds.esp

? 1C Echo_ChapelChant.esp

? 1D Storms & Sound.esp

? 1E AmbientTownSounds.esp

? 1F WindowLightingSystem.esp

? 20 300_Lore_Dialogue_Updated.esp

? 21 AliveWaters.esp

? 22 Book Jackets Oblivion.esp

? 23 CLS-Object Renamer-OBSE.esp

? 24 GuildOwnership1.2.esp

? 25 kalikuts_raretradegoods2_0.esp

? 26 Maigrets House Cats.esp

? 27 Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp

? 28 RAEVWD Cities.esp [Version 1.4]

? 29 Doomstones Expanded.esp

? 2A moDem's City Life.esp

? 2B Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.7]

? 2C Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp [Version 3.5]

? 2D sr_super_hotkeys.esp [Version 0.53]

? 2E DLCOrrery.esp

? 2F DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]

? 30 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

? 31 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

? 32 DLCSpellTomes.esp

? ++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]

? ++ GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp

? 33 ExnemEyeCandy.esp

? ++ MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

? ++ EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp

? 34 Acolyte_Of_Kynareth_HGEC.esp

? 35 Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp

? ++ FineWeapons.esp

? 36 Banes Guilds United.esp

? 37 Growlfs Hot Clothes.esp

? 38 HiddenSkulls.esp

? 39 PTArtifacts.esp

? 3A SentientWeapon.esp [Version 3]

? ++ Shivering Armor Variety.esp

? 3B Sin's Expanded Light Armor Kit [Chest].esp

? 3C Slof and Tanya's Fleshbeast Armour.esp

? 3D Town_Ceremonial_Armor.esp

? 3E ArynnsDrowQueen2.0.esp

? 3F StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp

? 40 Morrowind Robes and Dresses for HGEC.esp

? 41 Mart's Monster Mod - Hemingweys NPC and Guard Capes.esp [Version 1.0]

? 42 DLCThievesDen.esp

? 43 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

? 44 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]

? ++ Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp

? 45 Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp

? 46 Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp

? 47 Francesco's Optional Files 2.esp

? 48 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]

? 49 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]

? ++ Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44]

? 4A Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp

? ++ ArmamentariumLL.esp [Version 1.35]

? ++ ArmamentariumLLMagic.esp [Version 1.35]

? ++ ArmamentariumLLArmaVendor.esp [Version 1.35]

? 4B Mart's Monster Mod for Fran.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 4C Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Imperial Armor.esp [Version 3.7b3p]

? 4D Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 4E Mart's Monster Mod - Durability & Damage.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 4F Mart's Monster Mod - Fran's leveled quests.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 50 Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 51 Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 52 Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 53 Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 54 Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 55 Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 56 Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 57 TamrielTravellers4MMM.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ TamrielTravellersFactionAll.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ TamrielTravellersItemsnpc.esp [Version 1.39c]

? 58 TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ TamrielTravellersItemsVendor.esp [Version 1.39c]

? 59 ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions4MMM.esp [Version 1.39c]

? ++ Fransfemale.esp

? ++ MMM-Cobl.esp [Version 1.69]

? 5A Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp

? 5B Artifacts.esp [Version 1.1]

? ++ Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]

? 5C Bottomless Cavern.esp

? 5D DexwoodFamilySaga.esp

? 5E Dungeo Forgotten Tower Reduced Spawns.esp

? 5F Gift of Kynareth.esp

? 60 HeartOftheDead.esp [Version 6.2]

? 61 ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - All the Districts - Let The People Drink Compatible Version - Merged.esp

? 62 ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Castles - All The Castles - Merged.esp

? 63 Kragenir's Death Quest.esp

? 64 LetThePeopleDrink-Cobl.esp [Version 2.5]

? 65 KragenirsDeathQuest-LetThePeopleDrink patch.esp

? 66 KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp

? 67 EiAmod.esp [Version 1.1]

? ++ EiAmod Vwalk.esp

? ++ EiAmod_ShiveringIsles.esp

? 68 LostSwordOfTheAylied.esp

? 69 LostSwordOfTheAylied - OBSE Add-On.esp

? 6A Malevolent.esp

? 6B NecromancerHunting.esp

? 6C Quest For The Elements.esp

? 6D QQuix - Divine Elegance Showroom.esp

? 6E Ruins of Tarnesia.esp [Version 1.0]

? 6F Skingrad Market 1.0.esp [Version 1.00]

? 70 Spirit's Edge.esp

? 71 SSS_1.0.esp

? 72 The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.4]

? 73 TheElderCouncil.esp

? 74 TR_Stirk.esp

? 75 Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp

? 76 Apachii_Heroes_Store.esp

? 77 WeaponsOfTheNine.esp [Version 2.2]

? 78 WellspringGrove.esp

? ++ WellspringGroveZahrashaBook.esp

? 79 Windfall.esp

? 7A DLCFrostcrag.esp

? 7B DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

? 7C Knights.esp

? 7D Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.10]

? ++ EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Knights.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 7E The Crazy Scientist.esp

? 7F Consequences.esp

? 80 Consequences_Knights.esp

? 81 Cybiades.esp [Version 2.1]

? 82 CybiadesDungeon.esp [Version 2.1]

? 83 TOTF.esp

? 84 TOTF-EiAE Patch.esp

? 85 RTT.esp

? 86 The Lost Spires.esp

? 87 AFK_Weye.esp [Version 2.2.COBL]

? 88 GuardsofCyrodiil.esp

? 89 RTT-Weye Relocation Patch.esp [Version 2.0.1]

? 8A MannimarcoRevisited.esp

? 8B TOS - Prelude.esp

? 8C bartholm.esp

? 8D Duke Patricks Sickness Alarm.esp [Version 3]

? 8E Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp

? 8F Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]

? ++ NoHFailure_HFlora.esp

? ++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]

? ++ NoHFailure_HFlora_SE.esp

? 90 Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]

? 91 EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp

? 92 Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp

? 93 2nd to 1st person.esp

? 94 Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp [Version 3.2.0]

? 95 Roleplaying Dialogues.esp

? 96 Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp [Version 3.1.1]

? 97 Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]

? 98 Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp [Version 2.1.0]

? ++ Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]

? 99 bgBalancingEVCore.esp [Version 10.52EV-D]

? 9A bgMagicEV.esp [Version 1.7EV]

? ++ bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp [Version 1.68EV]

? 9B bgMagicBonus.esp [Version 1.7EV]

? 9C bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp [Version 1.68EV]

? 9D AgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.esp

? 9E SupremeMagicka.esp [Version 0.89]

? 9F SM_ShiveringIsles.esp [Version 0.86]

? ++ SM_DLCSpellTome.esp [Version 0.80]

? ++ SM_MMM.esp [Version 0.89]

? ++ SM_COBL.esp

? A0 Phitt's Phighting Phixes.esp

? ++ FingerOfTheMountain.esp

? A1 SSEE.esp

? A2 Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp

? ++ Mundane Enchantment Adjustment.esp

? ++ EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp

? A3 No psychic guards v1.2.esp

? A4 RefScope.esp [Version 2.0.2]

? A5 ROHJ2.esp [Version 2.0]

? A6 Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.esp [Version 2.0]

? A7 Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp

? ++ 77_Umpa_sixy_walk.esp

? A8 Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.esp

? ++ Better Looking Redguards COBL.esp

? A9 Display Stats.esp [Version 1.2]

? AA Quest Log Manager.esp [Version 1.3.2]

? AB Kot9 Rings.esp

? AC CWU MM - Demon Weapons.esp

? AD MagicFromTheSky.esp

? AE Riddle_Dungeon 2_v1.1.esp

? AF CM Armor Expansion.esp

? B0 Oblivion Achievements CORE.esp

? B1 DremoraCompanion.esp

? B2 Azure's Arcanery.esp

? B3 Slof's & Orc's Armours.esp

? B4 DimensionalPocket.esp [Version 3.01]

? B5 Automagic Bags.esp

? B6 PartnerArmor.esp

? ++ Garak's Staff Replacer Fire&Ice.esp [Version 1.5]

? B7 Vampire Hunting - Order Of The Virtuous Blood.esp

? B8 More Merchants.esp

? B9 Banes.esp

? BA Flexible Leveling II.esp

? BB Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp

? ++ bgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.esp [Version 1.5]

? BC Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp [Version 3.0.1]

? BD Leviathan Soulgems.esp

? BE Bullet Time Custom.esp

? BF Exercitatio Artem Parat - EV.esp

? C0 Misc Merged1.esp

? C1 Costume Forge.esp

? C2 Blackscar Citadel.esp

? C3 Merged Dungeons.esp

? C4 CompanionMaster.esp

? ++ YAARM_Iron.esp

? C5 1em_Vilja.esp [Version 2.3.2]

? ++ 1em_Vilja_as_Custom_by_Xtudo.esp

? C6 latexshopstore.esp

? C7 IDKRRR_C_race.esp

? C8 ArmoryLab 5.0 - Cobl.esp

? C9 IDKRRR_C_race_closed_mouth_version.esp

? CA Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs.esp

? CB Nec-Character_Sonnet_Mature.esp [Version 1.0]

? CC TamrielTransportationNetwork.esp

? CD Sonia.esp

? CE CMPartner_Xenia.esp

? CF Chocolate Elves.esp

? D0 CMChocloateelves.esp

? D1 companion_chocolate.esp

? D2 Skin-Toned Mannequins.esp

? D3 Tchos Alchemy Tower.esp

? D4 RshAlchemy.esp

? D5 Garak's Staff Replacer Grab, Hold&Decay.esp

? D6 RshAlchemyRecipes.esp

? D7 Saerileth.esp

? D8 Arren.esp

? ++ replace_glass.esp

? ++ HGEC_special_armor_repl.esp

? D9 bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp [Version 10.51EV-D]

? ++ bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]

? DA bgIntegrationEV.esp [Version 0.993]

? ++ EVE_KhajiitFix.esp

? ++ bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp [Version 1.68EV]

? DB bgMagicLightningbolt.esp

? DC bgBalancingOptionalLessHealth.esp [Version 10.0UV-U]

? ++ bgHighElfSeamReducerFixEV.esp

? ++ bgBalancingEVOptionalSeamReducerHighElfFix.esp [Version 10.0EV-D]

? DD Dschinni.esp

? ++ Better Looking Wood Elves non Beautiful People.esp

? DE StokerWolff.esp

? DF Fireflys Extended Cities.esp

? ++ Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs - Armamentarium piggyback.esp

? ++ Item interchange - Extraction.esp [Version 0.78]

? ++ Item interchange - Placement.esp [Version 0.78]

? E0 LordKain_Adash_World.esp

? E1 Hemingweys Capes.esp [Version 2.00]

? ++ SWalk.esp

? ++ Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.esp

Yes, I've got Wrye Bash installed. The Doc Browser doesn't list it, but it's there. Also OBSE 18. In advance, thanks.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 pm

I don't know about your mods, but the Tiber Septim Hotel is the game's "safe zone". That is, any NPCs that get misplaced - because they got stuck somewhere, went somewhere that shouldn't have been possible, etc. - end up at the Tiber Septim Hotel. So it is possible to see unexpected visitors from time to time.

That said, if the pirates are returning to the hotel on a regular schedule, then it likely is either caused by a mod, or by a bad AI package.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:06 pm

Every evening without fail, a group of 4-6 generic pirates show up inside the Tibor Septim Hotel. Some remain there, killing various NPCs (once, I saw the Hotel's owner merchant, dead), while others run outside and attack guards or strangers. I have no idea what mod might be causing this, but could use your assistance in figuring out.

Since you have RefScope installed, why not use it to check which mod, if any, those pirates are from?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:21 pm

Since you have RefScope installed, why not use it to check which mod, if any, those pirates are from?

Excellent point. Never considered that. <_<

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:18 pm

Since you have RefScope installed, why not use it to check which mod, if any, those pirates are from?

Excellent point. Never considered that. <_<

Just in case RefScope tells you that the pirates are defined in Oblivion.esm and Oblivion.esm only. They might be from another mod that placed vanilla pirates in a cell added by that mod. You removed the mod and the pirates didn't know where to go. So they went to the Tiber Septims Hotel for some drinks. In case RefSkope doesn't tell you anything useful just think about the mods you recently (or not so recently if you haven't been to the Tiber Septim in a long time) uninstalled that could have added pirates somewhere. Usually actors only end up in the Tiber Septim Hotel if the cell they were in doesn't exist anymore in the game.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:37 pm

Those pirates are from Bartholm, which is odd. I would have thought if this was a flaw in the mod, it would have been reported and fixed, before. So perhaps Bartholm is interacting with something else.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:56 am

Have you tried starting a new game and visiting the hotel?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:13 pm

Have you tried starting a new game and visiting the hotel?

As the pirates are from Bartholm, and I haven't advanced to any stages in the mod yet, why would starting up a new character matter?

To all: I was running Bartholm 6.0 with the 7.0 patch from Slart's website. I've just downloaded the full 7.0 and reinstalled it, then moved it back in my loading order. Soon as my Bashed Patch rebuilds I'll see if that changed anything, and report back.

Any other ideas?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:08 pm

The Tiber Septim hotel is where any actor (including the player) gets returned to if the cell they were occupying no longer exists. RefScope might not be very accurate in this case, because in order for people to end up here, a mod needs to have been removed, specifically, a mod that adds a brand new cell to the game that those NPCs were occupying.

The pirates are from Bartholm, but they could have been inside a cell added by another mod that you since removed from your load order and that's why they ended up there.

However, you say that the pirates are appearing there on a set schedule, so that seems to point to Bartholm actually trying to spawn them or move them into a cell that does not exist, ergo, mayhem at Tiber Septim.

If this gets really annoying and you can't figure out the cause, try this INI tweak (I haven't tested it, so use at your own risk):

SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD

This will change the safe zone cell from the Tiber Septim hotel lobby to the Testing Hall.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:18 pm

The pirates are still there. Damn. All I can figure is that there's some incompatibility with another mod, or this is a problem of the mod, itself.

If this gets really annoying and you can't figure out the cause, try this INI tweak (I haven't tested it, so use at your own risk):

SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD

As you note, there are risks with this, but it just might work. I've been checking Bartholm on TES Nexus in any case, and there are a number of complaints about missing quest items and NPCs, players entering vacant rooms, CTDs, and rooms without floors (always a favorite). So I'm thinking I might hold off playing the mod, at this time, for all its ambition and achievement.

To all, thanks for the assistance.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:04 pm

The pirates are still there. Damn. All I can figure is that there's some incompatibility with another mod, or this is a problem of the mod, itself.

As you note, there are risks with this, but it just might work. I've been checking Bartholm on TES Nexus in any case, and there are a number of complaints about missing quest items and NPCs, players entering vacant rooms, CTDs, and rooms without floors (always a favorite). So I'm thinking I might hold off playing the mod, at this time, for all its ambition and achievement.

To all, thanks for the assistance.

I've been playing with Bartholm active for 50+ hours now and I didn't encounter any problems. Except for the 'do you want hot dog' guy appearing randomly almost everywhere I go.

But I guess that was intended. And I love him, it's the most funny NPC in the whole game. I wouldn't want to buy hot dogs from him though after I found out where he gets his meat from.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:04 am

I've played through Bartholm 6 twice, and partway through 7 on a 3rd guy, and the 2 who played 6.0 have since upgraded to 7.0 and have had the mod running for ages without anything strange popping up in the hotel or any of the other CTD issues at all. Certainly no missing quest items or NPCs.

The only regular I keep seeing pop up in there is First Mate Fitch, who normally lives in Anvil and is a vanilla pirate from one of the ships there. I'm certainly not removing a cell he'd be traveling to but he pops in there on a regular enough basis to be irritating since his AI doesn't make him leave on his own.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:35 pm

What are the potential downsides, then, of using:

SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD

...as recommended, above? Because those endless piratical portals are pretty annoying, even leaving aside the fact that the TS owner gets killed.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:19 pm

I could really use some advice on this suggestion, below. I don't honestly see any downside, but I'm curious if anybody else does, and what that might be. Thanks.

What are the potential downsides, then, of using:

SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD

...as recommended, above? Because those endless piratical portals are pretty annoying, even leaving aside the fact that the TS owner gets killed.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Can't you just find out where they are supposed to be and check if anything is preventing that?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:33 am

Can't you just find out where they are supposed to be and check if anything is preventing that?

I'd have to either walk my way through the mod, which I haven't done, yet, or look over it in detail in the CS, and my skills aren't at that level. (Besides, the latter would take the surprise and fun out of the thing.)

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:02 am

I don't really see how you have a choice.

Unless of course you head down to Bartholm and knock out the pirate quest (which I don't recall from version 6 (haven't played 7).

Have you contacted the author?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:17 pm

If these are the same pirates I'm thinking of, they're the ones that are on the ship you travel to Slartholm on. Or rather the ones who can jump you as you're making the trip. It's not a particularly spoilerish part of anything. Just a random bit of fun.

The only way the cell they're in could not exist is if the entire mini-worldspace they're in does not exist. That would have to have been removed on purpose.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:18 am

I never got jumped.

My character was either too strong or said the right things I guess.

But I don't recall any pirate quests after getting to that tiny island. I liked the city quests better. I just really despised that you had to wait for a day between quests, but then there was nothing to do while you waited - and almost no benefit from just exploring.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:01 am

Well it must be somewhat random then, but I do recall getting jumped by them at least twice. None of them are showing up in the Tiber Septim Hotel though

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:48 pm

Well it must be somewhat random then, but I do recall getting jumped by them at least twice. None of them are showing up in the Tiber Septim Hotel though

And this appears to happen on a pretty regular basis at the Hotel, judging from the few nights I've been there. The numbers vary, but pirates always show up. It's as if somebody gave them a coupon. :whistling:

I will write the author, but in lieu of that, any comments on adding SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD to the game's ini file? Won't work? Good idea? Bad idea?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:35 pm

I will write the author, but in lieu of that, any comments on adding SSaveGameSafeCellID=231AD to the game's ini file? Won't work? Good idea? Bad idea?

You asked for downsides of adding testing cell as safe cell. Well downside is that if you plug mods in and out often, characters like partners etc could end up trapped there. I would suggest adding some irrelevant cell that is connected with rest of the world, perhaps that haunted house in Skingrad, or some cell in IC sewers.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:42 pm

Do you have the specific formIDs on these pirates?

If you want a cell that's easy to access that has little danger of killing someone off, use 1E6A2. That's the Bruma Caverns. If anyone getting stuffed there has AI telling then to leave, they'll be able to walk out into the wilderness far enough away from the city to not be noticed.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:28 pm

I've written the mod's author. Will post here, if and when I hear back.

Good ideas. I've uninstalled Bartholm, and done a few saves, since. I'll try reinstalling it and see if the pirates show up, again. Then I'll use the Bruma caverns if they do appear at the hotel. At the least, it'll give those Nord guards some exercise to keep warm.