I know. But others had this conversation before me, and I completely sympathize with them.

Why should I start a new game? Why should I give up everything I've done and just start from scratch again to do any quests left? From the beginning, I wanted to play the whole game with one character. And I can't do that because the game doesn't work right. Not because it was some pre-established rule, some limit imposed by the developer or some story reason. No, I have to create a new character because the game is broken. I mean, that's just indecent. I can't believe they let them get away with this, because they truly deserve a sh*t storm from the media for releasing products like this. But well, I guess since Skyrim pretty much works fine for the first 100 hours, all those reviewers playing 20 or 30 hours before writing their review wouldn't know. That's just wrong, and I'd really love to see an article questioning all this and wondering how an unfinished game can collect the amount of game of the year awards that Skyrim has won.

If it was relatively polished like every other game, it would deserve them all. But with problems like this, no way in hell. Really, this policy they have of releasing games earlier than they should needs to be punished somehow. Because I, for one, feel completely used. And you know what, no, I'm not going to send them any save file like I was considering before. No, I'm not going to do their testers' job. With any luck, more and more users will experience the problems I experienced, and they will stop buying their unfinished games on launch date. And then, maybe then, they will start taking their testing stage more seriously. And by that I don't mean they don't take it already. They seem to be good professionals, so they probably think they're doing the best they can. Sadly, that's still not enough.

unfortunately there are some things that no matter how patched will ever be fixed, while it would have been nice to just have one playthrough all i can recommend if you dont like having to start over to spice it up and do a different type of char than you originally started (i started a brawler to change up gameplay, going to not use any weapon or magic skills, just heavy armor, enchanting and alchemy.)

Or just shelve it for the time being, play some other games then come back after a few more patches. I didnt get into Oblivion/FO3/NV till after they were released and as stable as they were going to get it. So far so good with Oblivion and FO3 as far as not getting issues is concerned. NV i havent touched since Im still working on FO3. I dont know how long it will take for Skyrim to stablize for everyone but maybe shelving it and restarting down the road will make it the game you want it to be.

The main problem is starting over with a new character just puts you on the path to a lockup again. The savefile increases in size with every new location you visit. Therefore you will come to a point when the savefilesize is so big that this causes lockups upon entering certain locations. I had to lockuplocations (1. Dark Brotherhood Pinewood sanctaury after the Dawnstar sanctuary during "cure for madness" and 2. entering Dragonsreach during "message for Whiterun"), playtime was 430 hours and the savefilesize was 18 mb with the first and 19 mb with the second lockup.
With my new character I have a playtime of 185 hours and a savefilesize of currently 9 mb, but I haven't visited many dungeons like I did with my first. I had no lockups so far but I'm sure that's just a matter of time or better a matter of savefilesize.

As Bethesda seems to have carried over a problem known since at least Fallout 3 (at least from what I read in other posts concerning this problem) it is impossible to play through the game with only one character (with that I mean doing the main storyline, all guildqustlines, all NPC quests and visiting every other location).

I remember your stories, killshock. What I always wondered is how you could still play for 430 hours and not get the lockups before. I would be more than happy if I was able to play for 430 hours without crashes. My game is only 181 hours and the issues started well before that. The size is 17MB.

So it must be the number of locations visited among other factors.

And yes, I had this problem with Fallout 3 as well, so did my friends. It just happens with every game from these people. Luckily, I played Fallout a year after its release, so it was already stable enough to play through the whole thing without being bothered by crashes until the very end, when you were pretty much done anyway. That's why I should've waited for Skyrim, and I'll probably will now. What worries me is that, considering Fallout and Oblivion never got rid entirely of this issue, and Skyrim being much bigger than them, maybe even with all the patches in the world this will keep happening and will never be possible to complete the full game discovering every location with one character.

How many locations have you guys been to?

Think im around 200 and no file bloat as of yet, should go around and test and see if location finding will increase file save size.

wheres the reset all quests button?

wheres the import previous character feature?

Just for the record, and to see if we can get anything out of this, here are my general stats:

Again, I'm level 46, almost 47, with 181 hours played and file size of 17MB:

Locations Discovered: 252 / Quests Completed: 108
Dungeons Cleared: 98 / Misc Objectives Completed: 201
Main Quests Completed: 12
Side Quests Completed: 22
Days Passed: 241 / The Companion Quests Completed: 8
Hours Slept: 1915 / College of Winterhold Quests Completed: 9
Hours Waiting: 113 / Thieves Guild Quests Completed: 23
Standing Stones Found: 10 / The Dark Brotherhood Quests Completed: 20
Gold Found: 320917 / Civil War Quests Completed: 0
Most Gold Carried: 105502 / Daedric Quests Completed: 12
Chest Looted: 501 / Questlines Completed: 4
Skill Increases: 660 /
Skill Books Read: 39 / People Killed: 1018
Food Eaten: 368 / Animals Killed: 429
Training Sessions: 100 / Creatures Killed: 231
Books Read: 218 / Undead Killed: 516
Horses Owned: 8 / Daedra Killed: 20
Houses Owned: 3 / Automatons Killed: 89

Spells Learned: 21
Words of Power Learned: 33
Words of Power Unlocked: 36
Shouts Learned: 17
Shouts Unlocked: 18

ill check my stats and see if there is any correlation maybe we can figure out whats causing file bloat hopefully

Well, I've been having trouble entering/leaving places. It's taking a LONG time to actually come back.

It seems like its freezing but it's not basically..

Might have to get off soon lol.

It's stuff like this that makes it impossible for me to recommend this game to other people in good faith. It's hard knowing that the possibility exists that as I enjoy playing a character and log more and more hours onto said character, the closer I push that character to a state of unplayability.

In your situation, Liberance, I would definitely contact Bethesda and inform them in no uncertain terms of your disappointment. Tell them everything you've told us. I'd like to believe that they would listen and do something about it.

471 hours played?
-------------------------

Save game file min/max 20 meg (its always 20 meg now, has been for some time. Doesn't seem to grow
BEYOND that, but I can't do much int he game now so have not been playing )

Louis Letrush = 12. It was 11 a second ago, still at 20 meg saves. Now it is 12, my gosh...

Level 72, never exploited or used a book/whatever to artifcally gained level. Never tried consciously to "level."

Days as a werewolf 888 (though cured werewolf with a witch head, as soon as I could.. but it keeps going up)

Locations discovered 344 (I think that is ALL of them?)

Dungeons cleared 389 (repeats are counted?)

Days passed 935

Hours slept 419

Hours waiting 2503

Gold found 2,446,000 (or so)

Chests looted 3841

--------

quests completed 105

misc objectives 416

Main quests 18

side quests 30

Quest lines 5

-----

People killed 2845

animals killed 1279

creatures killed 682

undead killed 1070

daedra killed 72

etc


I don't see where you guys are seeing the real time hours you've played the game, I can't find that?


Oh, figured it out? Its on the save file?

471.03.19

so 471 hours played? Omg?

-------------
This issue makes the game unplayable for many players. It needs to be fixed, before they even CONSIDER
adding an expansion/DLC content.

Here is my list:

My house in Markarth (ALL MY STUFF, and ysolda =/ )

The palace in Markarth.

The palace in Whiterun.

Lots of overland Crypts, dungeons, etc that I can't remember the names of.

EXITING the companions hall in whiterun.

Pretty much ANY building that says "fort", be it one owned by the imperials or a bandit one.

Helgen keep to start, now just getting NEAR Helgen keep.

I was still able to enter the darkbrother hood sanctuary, by dawnstar. So the one
thing I COULD still do was get an assassination quest (as long as it did not
lead to an area I can't enter now, such as the palace in whiterun.)
Now I lock up going in Darkbrotherhood!!!!
So I can't even do THAT.

I'm not having "random" lock ups. they are specific, proceeding
in a linear fashion. Once I get the hard lock up, I always get the
hard lock up trying to enter the place again.

I have outdoor lockups that might APPEAR random, they are not
either. They have to do with nimroot glows and happen at/near
the same locations in the outdoors where they happened before.

-----------------------------

It also seems to proceed in a LINEAR fashion; That is to say its a UNIVERSAL experience for players once
they've played enough, visited/revisited enough locations to get large save game files. My problems started
once my save game files got to around a minimum of 18 meg. Other people have had it start at the same time,
or even at 16 meg. I could not get into the whiterun palace for the first time at 20 meg save file default size; I
read in the forums that other people had it happen at 18 meg or so. This means, whether Bethesda says so or
not, that the save game default size is a direct symptom if not the actual disease.

They are now always 20 meg. For some odd reason, mine seem to stop there (they don't get larger than
20 meg. ) However, the problems and lock up locations INCREASE even though the save game default
file size isn't getting larger than 20 meg. That is to say, doing the few things I CAN do, I eventually get another
locking location.

When first 20 meg, I could still zone into the palaces and my house in Markarth. Sometime later, I could no longer do that.

Some time in there I also tried INSTALLING the game, for the first time. Though I experienced no texture bugs, or further
problems due to that, I also experienced no improvement (to the game locking up, etc.) The main difference was
that now I don't hear the disc spinning when I lock up, nor the hard drive thrashing as much.

I unfortunately bought the download of New Vegas, hearing it was good, when this stuff started. Later, when perusing
the forums of that game I found that the SAME THINGS happen to users eventually (lock ups.) At this point, I am
unlikely to ever buy another Bethesda product. These are totally unforgiveable bugs, that I simply CAN'T BELIEVE did
not get discovered in normal playtesting; If I'd been playtesting their game, I would have NOTICED THIS.

Unforgiveable.

didnt grab all the info but I have found 203 locations, 78 dungeons cleared, 115 quests completed, 5 questlines completed, 364 days passed in game, 1560 Skill Increases, Lvl 73 nonexploited

Im going to try the next time I get a chance to play and see if finding the rest of the locations will add any file size and go from there (maybe try more dungeon clears, more misc quests etc)

Im thinking some of the factor in some of the issues people are having with specific crashes most likely are caused by nirnroot glow and Louis Letrush cloning, but thats just speculation on my part

It was discovered during normal playtesting but only if "normal playtesting" is defined as release the game unfinished and then see what happens.
Fixing the bloated savefile should be top priority on Bethesda's to-do-list. I mean I don't care if some quests are a bit buggy as far as I can play through the game with one character / play the with one character for as long as I want without having to worry that the savefile will at one point kill the game.

But I'm afraid they will never ever be able to fix that problem (PLEASE Bethesda prove me wrong, please!!!)... or maybe a modder will find a solution but then the question is will we get in form of patch (if Bethesda is clever enough to do relase a fix that way)?

But what exactly are they going to do? We are here assuming that they're already doing something, right? I mean, they must be aware of this, considering it happens to every single game they release. If anything, they should've done something before we all bought the game and got screwed.

Besides, I've contacted them before. I met Gstaff in person a few years ago, at the presentation of Fallout 3. He may or may not remember me. I was there as a contributor from a gaming website for which I still write from time to time. In fact, just days ago I published a very favorable article about Skyrim and I plan to do more. Among other things, I would like to ask them about bugs in a serious way, why they keep happening, how they happen and if they think they're worth it. But the mere fact that I'm here posting this stuff is probably damaging my reputation and they may refuse to talk to me anymore. Hopefully not, they agreed to comment on controversial things before and always give the best, most sincere interviews, but I'm not too optimistic. Still, I wasn't gonna hide or pretend I'm some other person. I'm the same guy who writes and contacts them under the same nickname. I loved their game, hated the bugs.


Yeah, man. It happens to every game. However, they seem to manage to make them more stable with time. I don't know about New Vegas, but when I played Fallout 3 a year after its release it worked well enough. However, New Vegas was notorious for having horrifying bugs at launch, and there's a chance it was never improved enough. I keep hearing problems with that one.


I don't think you will find the same issues we're having, because you should be experiencing them by now. Finding a few more locations probably won't change anything. You got lucky, I guess. And I realize that I could restart the game and get lucky as well, but right now, it's like playing Russian roulette. So in my case, no, thanks. I'll wait for more patches.

By the way, finishing the main quest is something I do want to do either way. Does anybody know if I have to visit the inaccessible area in my game for that quest for any reason, during the third act? I'd hate to keep playing, with lockups and all, and then find out that I can't even finish that because some important location is unreachable.

Yes, finishing the MQ requires that you let Odahviing take you to one of the two new worldspaces that you'll never get to again. Being a new worldspace may be to your advantage and not lock up like the Skyrim worldspace does.
Tip: Don't have anyone following you and save often.

I'm not sure I follow you. You're saying that something will happen during the third act of the main quest that will require me to go somewhere around the Markarth nearby area that I can't get to anymore? Keep in mind that those are pretty much farms and seemingly irrelevant locations. The lockup radius seem to cover the distance between Markarth and Sky Haven Temple, those two locations being unaffected and out of it.

No, sorry. The areas are no where near the areas you are experiencing lock ups. They are entirely different world spaces, in that it takes you somewhere that is not related to the general Skyrim world.

still possible I can cause a file bloat, we will see, I dont mind trying to test it out and see if it can be of help for those that are crashing in certain areas

repeatedly fast travel between riften and the homebrew meadry, takes alot of time but this will cause your game to bloat and eventually crash entering the areas. This is not a effect you can reproduce in a couple hours play.

ill try that and see what happens to my game

@Liberance
I would still contact them. I don't like to assume anything, so why not see if they really are aware of the problem and are doing something about it? I'd say at this point you have nothing to lose by doing this. You sound honest as far as I can tell, you seem sincere both in your frustration at this problem and your desire to find a solution, and judging by the other posts you're certainly not alone in experiencing these kind of problems. I don't see how or why Bethesda would consider these posts discrediting to your reputation, aren't topics like these one of the main reasons such a forum exists? In fact I'd say your past experiences with Bethesda would strengthen your credibility (your articles, the fact that you've spoken to their representatives before, your work with gaming websites), not damage it.

I agree that Bethesda should know by now how to have these kind of issues resolved before release day, this isn't their first open world game. One can only hope we won't see a repeat when their next game is released.

Well, I was able to finish the Main Quest and therefore give Skyrim some sort of conclusion until next time I play it, probably once all DLCs are out and is properly patched. I loved everything that happens after Alduin's Bane. It really gives the dragon plot a fitting ending and definitely pays off if experienced after completing all the faction questlines.

That said, I noticed that my savefile went from 17MB to 18MB during the ten hours that took me to finish all remaining quests. And considering I've played exactly 190 hours, it looks like the file could've been increasing size at more or less that pace since the beginning. Although it's hard to say, because I only started checking that very recently. I didn't experience crashes, because I used carriages and fast traveled when I needed to. There were a couple of instances, however, that I ventured into Skyrim and I was able to cover long distances without problems. But during the second of those it still crashed eventually, in the middle of nowhere.

So here it ends my fight with this game. For now. I really hope that by the time I get back to it, it's fixed in a way that I can even keep playing with my original character if I want to, and go through the Civil War and the DLCs with him. Although I doubt that. The freezing problems will probably still be there and there will be no other option but to create a new character. And who knows if it will be possible to play everything with that one too. But oh well, let's just hope everything goes alright.

I have a spoiler question, by the way:



Thanks for thinking that whatever I might have to say matters to that extent, but I believe it's pointless. I'm nothing but one more user repeating what many have already said before me. I'm sure they know these things, they may do or not do what needs to be done, and we all will judge them as a consequence. It's up to them if they just want to enjoy the superficial recognition of awards based on marketing campaigns, or gain the gaming community's trust and respect instead. Sending some letter to a community manager is not going to have any positive or negative effect on that. These are decisions being made at higher levels, born from common sense. If they are honest about their work, when I get back to this game I will be able to play without problems.

You could if you have the ability to, send your save file over for them to look at and see why there is a file bloat issue, that in turn can help you and others down the road

Is Betheseda even trying to create a 1.5 update? It appears that their done with their 'hard work', and no new updates are coming. I find this utterly reprehensible, and they are doing nothing to quell my total consternation of these well-known issues.

Never buy another product from this company. Never.

I would assume they are, depends on what fixes they are trying to do, how hard they are to fix. Just because they arent fitting patches to your schedule doesnt mean they have stopped patching the game.