I honestly hope Beth takes the dialogue criticisms into consideration with their DLC content - Varied and differing responses that lead to different branching paths. Also, SPECIAL-related dialogue options that involve all of the SPECIAL points, not just a coin-flip that is affected by a higher charisma.

You raise a valid point there, Sybelius -

Imagine if Beth kept all of the RPG elements from previous titles when working on new titles but improved them while adding new features still. Instead they hack great features in turn for newer ones and/or more streamlined ones. And not that streamlining is necessarily bad, but I feel Beth sometimes goes to the extreme with it when that is not necessary.

The newest Dragon Age is shining example of bad streamlining - When you level the game automatically assigns points for you. You just pick your own perks. And I won't go into the combat because I am prone to long-winded rants then.

These are scripted checks that have nothing to do with whether perks serve as an effective skill system. Similar checks could easily be created using the current perk system. If Obsidian were to create another Fallout, you would probably see situations where perks were used in a similar fashion.

One could argue that Bethesda didn't utilize it enough in quest design by including perk specific alternate solutions to problems, but that's a design choice. They probably didn't want the players to feel they had to build a certain way and instead sacrificed depth for player freedom. Systemically, though, the new system is quite elegant and works fine as a character development system.

Go look it up dude. I didn't lie about a single thing.

Anybody who's played the game more than a playthrough can figure out most of these skill functions.

I know all this from actually playing the game.

While your original post straight up lies about what the skills do. Just look at breaks post a few posts up that shows all the science checks.

Did you know that in hacking terminals you can select certain symbols and brackets that remove duds and replenished your guess allowances, and that such symbols are depending on your science skill?

Just one of many things the skill.does.

I suggest going and actually looking up what the skills do in new Vegas, because your original post is not only misinformed, but it's a blatant lie in most aspects.

I for one am happy for the change from a skill related system to the Special/Perk system. I think it is a more freely flowing system to gauge a character's power level.

Since, you did not level individual skills independently by using them, as in the Elder Scrolls series. The Fallout series made skill usage a very minor point towards the general character level. Fallout 4 and TES: Skyrim both choose to go in different directions, as in how Skills, Attributes, and Perks interact with each other.

Skyrim choose to drop Attributes (or your SPECIAL stats,) in favor of making your skills the decision factor as to which perk you can take as you leveled up your character.

Fallout 4 choose to drop Skills in favor of making your SPECIAL attributes the deciding factor as to which Perks you can take as you level up your character.

I think both systems work for their respective games accordingly.

I feel stupid since I prefered old system and I didnt even know that....

Well in my opinion the new system is more appealing you can focus on what you want or need and doesn't have way much useless skills because there are some useless ones at least for me, also about the stats being low, I don't know for me its more of a psychological thing some people feel amazed just by seeing big numbers on the screen.

With skill system you were not barred from specialisation like you are in Fallout 4 (thanks a lot level locked perk whick took the place of skills).

I think the difference between most hardcoe new Vegas fans, and hardcoe fallout 3 fans (and really any new Bethesda game) is that new Vegas isn't a game meant to be played hundreds of hours with a single character. A person can do a single play through of new Vegas and only see 40% of the content the game has to offer (pulling number out of my ass), because there are different factions with different quests, or the same quest, but can be done for a different faction, or different side, making the quest completely different from the same quest in a different play through

I've played thousands of hours of new Vegas, over countless characters that last anywhere from 80 to 180 hours or so.

The big part of new Vegas over 3 and 4 is replay value and the difference in each play through.

Over all of my characters in new Vegas, they all felt and were vastly different by the end of the game. I've played laser scientists, mad bombers, maverick hotshot gun shooters, snipers, brute tribal characters, boxers, companion reliant traders, suave talkers, Han solo smugglers, heavily armed soldiers in powered armour, and so on and so forth.

New Vegas's skills added a whole new dynamic to the game. Quests had multiple paths that some you wouldn't even know about til 6 play throughs in and found out a certain skill or perk gave a unique dialogue that gave an alternative way to finished the quest.

Skills not only contributed to these dialogues, but they also made each character have different strengths and weaknesses. Especially with crafting. The amount of crafting recipes in new Vegas is ridiculous, repair, science, medicine, explosives, survival. All these skills had their own set of recipes that ranged from skills level 10 to 100, some extremely useful.

This is all gone in fallout 4, and wasn't present in fallout 3 either.

I don't (completely) disagree with your interpretation of the old skills system, but I still miss and prefer it. I do think you're simplifying it a bit, though, as skills did more than what you describe.

Rather than completely scrapping skills, they should have improved on how they work and actually make the mechanics work. Skills belong in an RPG, and they keep advertising Fallout as an RPG (I personally don't think it is, but that's another discussion). They had something good going and only had to find a way to get the mechanics to reflect what the skills showed and they would've been golden. Instead they went out and reinvented the wheel and came up with some soulless perk system that is so far removed from what perks used to be that I hardly recognize it anymore. Much disappoint. I'll probably get used to it, but it's still a massive let down.

Just browsing through the forums and stumbled upon this thread.

I was hoping what I was reading was just misinformation (judging by the op) but I am horrified that they took out the skill system.

What is it with companies "simplifying" a game and taking away what to me was the most important parts, the skill trees and indepth choices that mattered.

I feel that games are being made like this because developers are just taking a lazy way out and forgoing skill trees.

I haven't boughten the game yet and would like to be enlightened to this perk system, is it like Diablo 3 rune system, all the choices being locked behind levels?

Had to post my opinion.

Something similar to Diablo 3. As I said some posts before.

I loved New Vegas, and have also spent an embarrassing amount of time playing it. But I can't say that there was a lot of variety in my characters where skills were concerned. By the time I hit the post DLC level cap, I always ended up having pretty much everything maxed out. I doubt that will be possible in Fallout 4, and suspect that my next character will look different from my current one.

Once again, I think that the differences between New Vegas and the Bethesda offerings have a lot less to do with the mechanics of the character development system than it does quest design philosophy. Bethesda has a 'do what you want, when you want' philosophy that limits the degree to which they will allow character build to be a barrier to success. Obsidian has no problem putting certain options and solutions behind specific skill barriers that all characters may not be able to meet. Either system is fine, it's how they are applied to quest and world design that is important. One is justified in preferring one philosophy over the other, but let's not blame the mechanics.

Yeah all the skills are mixed with perks. So you have a lockpicking perk that has 4 ranks. You can get the first rank, but the,second rank has a level 17 requirement, then a level 30 or something requirement, then a level 40 or so requirement.

So yeah, you gotta be level 40 to open master locks.

But that doesn't matter, because you can send dogmeat to go get weapons, and he can open any lock.

For example there's one of the best weapons behind a master lock in the vault at the start. You can literally leave the vault, meet the dog, then walk back and tell him to get you guns, he will come back with the gun behind that master lock.

That is a dam shame. Is there any justification as to why this happened?

You can open master locks by 18th level, and Dogmeat can't get objects out of containers. The weapon you are referring to isn't in a container, it's in the world space behind a door. Using Dogmeat to acquire it is an area specific exploit.

I think that the biggest glaring issue with this system is how forgettable it is. I have so many points unused because I frankly don't need to use them on anything. I have my sniper perk, I have my sneak perks, I have my local leader perks, I have my carry weight perks, and I have my Gun Nut and salvage perks. There's a couple others I might eventually take when I'm bored of exploring and want to focus solely on settlements, but what's striking is how there is so much that you just don't need to worry about. Why should I do lockpicking and hacking? Companions can just be ordered to do that, and the ones that can do it you can get pretty early on in the game. Flavor perks? Cute, but not really compelling until I'm at an extreme level of boredom (which I'm not yet).

So I've mostly forgotten about them and left the points unused where in the previous games I remember thinking very carefully about how to build out my character because it mattered. Now it doesn't. I don't have wings of conversation locked out because I didn't build my character as a medical doctor, I just quicksave and run the check until RNG goes my way. I don't have to worry about not being able to get into a terminal or a safe - I just travel with the companion that has the skill. My character hasn't run into any situation where I felt like if I was just a little stronger, I'd be able to clear the encounter. Usually a well-placed bottlecap mine and detonation from a distance solves all my problems.

I'm all for streamlining stuff, but it feels like we just lost something in the process.

They could've just rework one of the core elements of the franchise...

Ah sorry I used the numbers from a different perk for my example. The same premise stands, skill perks locked behind level requirement, exactly like Diablo 3 which is what someone was asking about.

Souljack I see your point but you can't have the hacker companion and the lock pick companion at the same time so picking one of these at least to level up would be beneficial did you get the no rad from water perk that's good for exploring and science to mod up the lasers is quite good. If your doing the sneak did you get the ninja one also, if you level the right special the red speech paths will turn green and you wont have to keep quitting and reloading.

What difficulty are you running as i'm playing at very hard and have had to admit defeat in several locations knowing i must return when i am more advanced in the game or i'm crap and need to get better!!

You can't join different factions and get different quest lines in Fallout 4?

That's news to me.

Actually that aspect seems to be massively expanded on from New Vegas, where killing the BoS or recruiting the Boomers plays out the same way, no matter who you do it for.

In Fallout 4, the faction quest lines are completely different.

Is there a faction reputation system? Do faction quests require you kill other faction quest givers and thus lock you out of those quests? And not just for the main quest, but optional side quests as well? Can you wear gear of a faction to disguise as them and thus not be shot on sight, while Also being shot on sight by that faction's enemies? Can you stumble upon faction quests while not associated with the faction, and do it as an independent like you could in new Vegas? (Like vault 22 for example).

I know what I am about to say relates to a different IP. I honestly was picturing NV with a skyrim or ESO skill system to it. Thought that since that system was in two games belonging to Bethesdas's IP it would be utilized in the new fallout.

Was I the onlyone making that assumption?

that is u, dude. Im playing a loner so i dont have access to all thier help, Plus on NV companions did it too or u forgot??

there isnt a faction reputation system bc that was stupid on NV since the only think u do with it was farm rep like a MMO game. Anyway yeah everything u said happen on Fallout 4, there is a point that is need that u wipe or become enemy of other faction, that mean those other faction will attack u on sight,

Actually if u inform yourself a little more, the redo of the skill system was actually a way to fix a super unbalance system where u could become OP when u hit level 20 playing at the highest dificulty (happen to me on NV and 3)

NO U DONT, ppl should stop speaking when they dont know. U open master lock at level 19, the last perk is just so the bobby pins dont break.

And the whole gun issue is just a bug dude. It was like the bug or exploit on the Witcher 3 where u could become milliner at level 5 and buy every armor and weapons u want.