Imagine that

"Hello Mr. super mutant, can you kill these stupid super mutants bothering us?"

"Okay"

NPC "Stupid Ghouls, they should all be shot in the head! Hey you look like a capable hunter. How about you kill those filthy creatures for us?"

You as a ghoul: "Sure thing."

Sounds like Bethesda grade writing there.

Wow.... that was better than Bethesda's writing!

Na, it's probably the type of writing we will see in F4.
Maybe one day they'll hire someone with an education that's past the 3rd grade.
God I hate their writers, Skyrim could have been sooooo much better.

2. It completely depends on how the main story is written. And if a faction is in need of help why "wouldn't" they want a ghoul to help them?
"No, you're yucky, go away!"
"But you seem kinda screwed, you sure you don't want my help?"
"Yes yes we are very sure now go away."
"Erm... The opposing faction are raiding you, are you absolutely sure? I mean, they have Gauss Rifles and you have 10mm Pistols.."
"Scram zombie!"

Seems logical.

Anyway, as to "fighting for humanity", not really, it's about exploring humanity in the post-apocalyptic world, allowing to play as a ghoul allows you to explore humanity from a different perspective, so it fits perfectly fine with premise.

3. Again, the game does not have to be radically different, not every dialogue line has to be rewritten and rerecorded for ghouls, humans and trogs.
Let's take Goodsprings, none there seems to be a racist or bigot. From Sunny you'd get two additional comments on being a ghoul, from Joe Cobb you'd get the intro dialogue "What do you want, ghoul?" and with Ringo he wouldn't aim at you when you enter the gas station as Ringo knows that PG's have no ghouls in their ranks.
Only major change to Goodsprings by being a ghoul would be Doc Mitchell's dialogue.

Not everything has to be changed just cause you are a ghoul, not everyone is a bigot or racist, and those who are aren't gonna just kill you.
It's been 204 years, people know that ghouls aren't zombies. (Except for the idiots in Capital Wasteland)
Sure enough the game should reflect your choice of race, so lots of NPC's will have new intro dialogues and have some small tweaks in other dialogues, while a reasonably sized number of NPC's will alter completely depending on your choice of race.

Manny for example would change completely with his dialogue if you are a ghoul. Hell, if you walk out in fron of the dinosaur before you talk to him then he's gonna shoot at you for being ignorant and not seeing you aren't a feral.
Boone would give you somewhat of a cold shoulder at first but would then open up to his usual dialogue.
The rest of the town, such as Ada, Cliff and Jeannie would have some small tweaks in their dialogue but nothing much.
No-Bark would have a few new lines if you are a ghoul but nothing as much as Manny has.

And Styles, this would work.
The game would reflect on your race, this case being a ghoul, without having every human go "KILL THE ZOMBIE!!!"
Some small comments, some new dialogue lines, and some NPC's (which are in a smaller amount but still big enough to make playing a ghoul different) would be completely changed depending on your race.

But the entire gameworld does not have to change.
Just a tiny part of it would have to radically change, say 10%.


4. If they do then we can always just ignore it. And if they say "It IS canon damn it!" then we can just go "Nope, it is not". Cause quite frankly if they do something like that then it's obvious they have no clue as to what Fallout is and we are more competent to decide what is canon and not.

The number one reason why I am against it, is because I don't think it can be done well. Sure as hell wouldn't be done well by Bethesda. It would just be a mess of bad writing.

You are also under the impression that Humans now overwhelmingly like Ghouls and Super Mutants. NCR likes Ghouls and the people of the strip don't seem to mind Ghouls. Other than that the history of Fallout doesn't really show humans loving Ghouls. They sure as hell don't love super mutants.

A Super Mutant or a ghoul that has spent their mutated life being hated by humans, isn't going to get themselves involved in human politics in order to help humans. That's if Fallout 4 is going to be like New Vegas or the Orginals and be political, or if its going to be like Fallout 3 => "Help these guys (no option but to help) and kill those guys (again no option) simple.

Or they could have the MLA.

The MLA would be open to humans, ghouls, and supermutants.

MWBoS only accepts humans.

And I realized a little while ago that you really couldn't help Lyons much either.

A ghoul in the MLA would work if the game was like Tactics. Would require alot of great writing and game world changes if the game is going to be an RPG. I just don't see that happening. If I am playing as a ghoul, I want the world to know it! I want people to hate me for just being a ghoul. I want to be treated differently if I was a ghoul or super mutant. I don't want pretty much everyone acting as if I was human. Again I can't see Bethesda pulling that off. It would be awesome if they could. I just don't see it.

If it can't be done right, it shouldn't be done at all.

Bethesda has great writing, I'm sure it can be pulled off.

Really?

Your sarcasm is turning into Spam, man. It's not funny at all, take a break and post something worthwhile, that actually adds something to the discussion, not all this spam crap as of lately.

And what do you propose then? That mutant-human interaction just stagnates? Far more possibilities open up for storylines and exploration around human/mutant bigotry by having mutants more involved with human society, meaning: Letting them into the cities.
Or should we just keep having Necropolis, Gecko, Underworld and REPCONN settlements? With the occasional lone ghoul actually with humans?
It's boring and done already.
If we want Fallout to move on then we need to explore new areas, making ghouls more common around human settlements and towns is going to help that.
Just letting it stagnate is not.
Mutants doesn't have to be loved by every human, some might just "tolerate them".

And why would a ghoul or super mutant or trog want to get into the political thing?
Well, how about this: "Maybe if I help X and show X that I'm really valuable and loyal despite being different, maybe they'll treat others of my kind better?"
So why help NCR? To further show how loyal ghouls can be.
Why help Legion? To show Caesar that despite being rotten bags of flesh and bones ghouls can be very resourceful and are valuable for their skills. Caesar is of course gonna be catious about them as ghouls are harder to brainwash but still.
And why help House? Cause House wants "you". And you might think "If I help House with this maybe he'll consider allowing more ghouls in here, seeing as how we're very old and have a lot of knowledge.

Why would mutants want to just live in their own places forever?
Look at the black people and gays, they have been fighting for being treated as equals for a long time.
Why would mutants just give up? Shouldn't they be fighting for their rights too? Shouldn't they want to be treated as equals (in a sense) to humans?
Why are mutants the exception to this? Why should they just give up and live in filthy isolated and poor areas and constantly be harassed by humans?
Mutants need to become part of society. Fallout is about exploring the post-apocalyptic world and how it changed.
What better way to illustrate that than to make walking corpses part of every day life in civilized communities?

You might not like ghouls Styles, but this is good for Fallout.
Remember how newer fans say that we Dinosaurs don't want anything new? What about we show them they're wrong.

So maybe not play as ghouls or trogs yet, but we definitely need them more involved with humans. Not every settlement is gonna have like 40% of it's population be mutants, but at least one or two for each settlement would help Fallout evolve.

I'm 100% for it. I'm tired of mutants just being tossed into the background of civilized society, I want them involved with the rest of the world. I want to see more interesting storylines, but most of all, see mutants, ghouls especially, fight for their rights to be treated as equals.

Hmmm there are some reasons why it would be hard to implement this idea but your argument is not one of them. Ghouls (no ferral) are not shot on sight by all humans, not even close. Super Mutants are even less tolorable but in the next game a faction made up of a human/super mutant alliance could be made. Its realistic as far as Fallout goes. Why wouldnt you want to combine huans intelect with super mutants strength? Ofcourse not ALL humans and other races would be tolerable but thats what would make it interesting

Stating an opinion is spam?

Edit: and I also only post sarcasm every 15 posts or so, so I don't know what you're talking about

Making a joke once or twice is fine, but the whole Pet Vertibird thing along with some other of your posts it does come across as spam.
A joke is fine, being unserious is fine, you just need to pace it.
Once you try to add comedic value everywhere with little further the thread then it does come across as spam.

(I take it you were being sarcastic with that previous statement)

Alot of humans do shoot ghouls on sight. There are few example of factions that don't shoot ghouls on sight. For every example of people that don't shoot none ferral ghouls on sight there is an example of people that do. So to say "not even close" is simply wrong.

Have you ever wondered why ghouls live in their own little communities? Because humans often kill them. Ghouls that do live with people are often segregated or mistreated. Gob was the only ghoul in Fallout 3 living with humans besides Sharon. New Vegas had people more open to ghouls, which is a sign that people are becoming ok with them. Such as NCR and the people of the strip, but that is only a new development in the Fallout Universe.

As for Gabriel. I don't think playing as a ghoul is away to jump start peace and love between humans and mutants. I really don't want that for Fallout. For mutants to be universally accepted IMO would just feel stupid. Groups that do like them I am ok with, but there should always be those that hate ghouls. Remember a ghoul is a rotting smelly living corpse, why would you like that around?

So what if humans were the rarity in NYC you would have high rads so being or becoming a ghoul would be the norm....

If any place has really high rads, no humnas would live there in the first place. It wouldn't make sense. If the location was just all ghouls, it would be a very odd Fallout game.

The Pitt.

Those people were either extremely mutated or very young.

Then Ashur decided to get together the raiders who were looting the city and bring in slaves.

The irradiated parts are where the slaves live, people don't care about their living conditions but where Ashur lives is radiation free.

i plai as ork if we get knew plaiabull raic!

I have to agree with Styles that doing it right would be difficult to do right, race relations aside you'd need to balance a ghouls immunity to radiation, poison and non-hostility of other ghouls with some kind of disadvantage. How does one do this, lower perk rate? immune to chems so you can only heal with food or radiation. Then of course you need people to react accordingly he points out a very good reason why most ghouls live apart.

Super Mutants are an even bigger issue due to there size, though there is at least an obvious disadvantage in equipment limitations. But given there are no new supermutants all the ones of opproriate intelligence(west coast strain) are rather old. This would make playing a level one super mutant inappropriate.


Harold was never really a ghoul, and being enveloped by Bob was being a possible future was mentioned in Fallout 2. Don't know where your getting the burn victim thing when they had a guy named Patchwork because he left parts of himself everywhere

Burn victims are pretty much what they are now. They have shoddy skin but still the same, muscular bodies. They can still run, gun, fight and wear heavy armor as well as humans. In Fallout 1 and 2 I got the impression that they were rather weak, in Necropolis all the ghouls shamble towards you. They always look like someone that has starved for a long time. The ghoul companion you get in Fallout 2 appears to have a weak voice, at least that's how I read his stuttering lines, and he also speak of not being strong anymore. The "talking heads" of Set and Harold also gives you an image of someone that is horribly disfigured and mutated and speak with a voice filled with mucous, and not the raspy "lost my voice from caughing a lot"-voice and the face of a burn victim where they still look like humans without a nose.

I liked the "old ghoul" better

But yeah, Harold never really was a ghoul, he came in touch with FEV somehow, under wrong circumstances the FEV can backfire and turn you into something akin to a ghoul, like Talius at the Follower's library.

It is explained in Gecko that Harold is accepted as one of them cause he really resembles a ghoul.
So while technically not a ghoul he does look like one in Fallout 3.

And so what if Patchwork had a case of leprecy? Doesn't change the fact that none of them look like ghouls in Fallout 3 or New Vegas.
The feral ghouls look more like ghouls than they do.
Ghouls are suppose to be really rotting, to look like decomposing corpses.
Not just have a severe skin burn.

A ghoul if done right would be cool i agree. But there is also something ive noticed, why cant we choose our own backstory, it doesnt have to effect our main story maybe just our starting perks and some bonuses to our skils (ae repair for mechanics , guns and the sniper perk if u said u were in the military of some sort) plus for some humor from wild wasteland why nit midgets and even for urself being a midget. Are supposed to believe that all the midgets were killed of in the world

Sure you can, you just use your imagination, set up your character accordingly and go with it (though there need to be much more Traits).

I agree that there should be midgets, they were supposed to be a common effect of radiation in the wasteland. Be able to create your character something like http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3404/customization.jpg.