As the guy who posted first here, the Super Mutants should just about be dying out now. I believe a lot of the FEV that kept them 'reproducing' in the sense is running out.

Ghouls will always be around as long as radiation still exists.

By race, I hope there will be more than the generic Caucasian, Hispanic, Black, and Asian. Maybe you could turn into a ghoul as well.

Let's just pause a moment and think about the big picture here. So far, in Fallout most major factions (excluding MW BoS (?) and NCR) has been openly hostile in almost all cases to ghouls, SMs, and trogs. As in KoS. As for Ceaser's Legion, despite that never mention ghouls the chances are slim that would tolerate them.

Now in my opinion, there is no point to have any other races than humans if you are going to be shot at 90% of the time.

NCR lets ghouls join their military and the MWBoS only allow ghouls and other mutants join, based on how you play the game. Depending on how you play the game, can also cause the MWBoS to actively hunt down and kill all mutations and those that side with them. We have to wait to see what Bethesda decides.

Personally Id love to see different playable races but I would like to see it really well done. Different perks and advantages, different interactions, different dialogue, and varied routes for any quest. For example your a Ghoul and you have to get info from a human, well that human may not relay that info to you so you must now find another way to go about it. This would happen for all races just depending on the situation. Its not something I just want to see "thrown" in though. It could be freakin awesome with lots of work put in it, but could be lame if not done right...

What about some sort of race system where you could choose the origin of your character and that would have effect on stats? idk maybe a PC from Arizona has higher then avg. strength. This is a veeery rough idea i was just wondering what people would think about races that aren't really well races.

Vegas showed no KOS on ghouls.
Neither does NCR.
Neither does Legion.
Neither does the Great Khans.
Neither does Jacobstown or Broken Hills.
Neither does Shi.

So what factions actually shot ghouls "on sight"?
Lyons Brotherhood.
Unity.
And I think Vault City.

Other than that I can't think of any major faction that would go to such lengths as to actually kill a ghoul for simply being a ghoul.
None confirmed anyway. Like with Legion, they don't like how ghouls look and find them repulsive but there is no information on whether they KOS them or live and let live them.

Lyons BoS do kill ghouls. We learn this from the Ghouls in Underworld. That one thats always outside it I think.

Unity, and Jacobs Town are mutants and they don't harm ghouls. Super Mutants have their own problems.

Broken Hills had a group of humans that wanted to kill all the Ghouls and Super Mutants.

Vault City wanted to blow up Gecko!

The Shi, The Khans, and Legion, haven't seen them with Ghouls around. So we can't say for sure that they do or not.

NCR is the only main human faction that we know of for sure that doesn't kill ghouls.

I am not a big fan of ghouls becoming excepted into human society. Some I can see being ok with it, but most wouldn't want them around.

Edit: Sorry didn't notice your list of factions that do shoot ghouls on sight.

I see what your saying but at that point at the very least they could just change their physical apperance and race you know? Theres no half and half on this imo. Either do it right and do the very fine details or honestly sty away from it

1. Of course.
2. Meh, agree to disagree on this part then.
3. Well I'm not saying any race should be [censored]. I'm saying they should not all be equally viable for everything. A certain place might have such a high radiation count that only ghoul players can get in there. It's not equally viable to Trogs or Humans, even if they pump up their radiation resistance the radiation will be so high that they'll die in mere seconds. That's what I meant with races. Not "everything" has to be equally viable to every race. Now radiation for example would not need to be everywhere for a ghoul to be a viable race, they still get other bonuses and can use irradiated food to get a rad-bonus effects. Trogs special effect isn't their eyes. That's just a mere side-bonus, no their strength lies in their size and durability. They're bigger, get more close combat damage, get -1 STR requirement on all weapons and get +5 initial DT.
Trogs' strengths would lie in their combat capability. But they are inferior at sneaking due to their size and mutation, they will always, even with 100% Sneak, get -15% sneak success chance (Or well, add +15% sneak detection chance to everything else.).
They also get lower Charisma and Intelligence and cannot get them above 5 and 7 respectively
They simply aren't as viable as a Wastelander is in terms of a diplomat character. One can of course try, but they aren't as viable.

All of these effects should be made clear to the player in the beginning, if the player chooses to not read up on them and figure out what they want before they start then that's their mistake, not mine nor the developers.

4. What exactly are we arguing about again? Cause I agree with this part...

Erm... I think my "as viable as" statement was mostly about skills.
Races should all have lots of options to pursue, but certain things should be locked out from certain races.
Like... Let's say a feral ghoul knows of a stash of goodies, then as a Ghoul you will notice this feral acting strangely and leading you to this stash it found.
This simply can't happen to the other characters, the stash isn't even visible until that ghoul leads someone there.

But I don't think that just cause you are a Trog that you should get special designed areas of the game specifically for the enhance eyesight in darkness.
Nor do I think that there should be a massive amount of irradiated areas just so ghoul characters can bash in it constantly.
I meant that I don't think that the racial bonus should be too emphasized, to the point where playing a human is always inferior.
And to also create another Capital Wasteland irradiated area just so ghoul characters can enjoy their bonus all the time.
Cause the eyesight and rad immunity is not the only bonuses they gain, they have other bonuses too that can be enjoyed.

[censored] it, let's just roll with this and see where it gets us, I think I must have miswrote something or misread something or misreplied to something and now it's turning into a mind[censored].

Wouldn't ghouls still suffer from rads?
As in from risk of going feral?

1. The point was "main factions that KOS ghouls/mutants on sight." Unity is a big faction. And Master expressed less than favorable things for the ghouls after he's going to take the wasteland.
2. Yeah, but did they "KOS"? That was the point.
3. Dude...

"So what factions actually shot ghouls "on sight"?
Lyons Brotherhood.
Unity.
And I think Vault City."

4. Yeah, but he said that "EVERY major faction" shot ghouls on sight, and these three are unconfirmed. But if you bring Seth or Raul to GK, Legion or Shi they aren't killed on sight.

5. Why not though? What's to bad about them? Wouldn't it show great progress of humanity to finally be able to accept ghouls as their fellow men and leave much of it's bigotry behind? And wouldn't it be typical to see that they just replaced it for a new bigotry against another mutant? I think it would be great story material to make ghouls more involved with the wastelanders.




Damnit!
Ghouls don't go feral cause of the amount of radiation.
They go feral because they can't handle living as a ghoul, they can't handle that their skin is falling off, that their noses drop from their faces, that their organs are sticking out.
They go crazy because of the change from becoming a ghoul, or they go crazy because they've lived too long as a ghoul and simply snap at some point.
It has 'nothing' to do with the amount of radiation.

Sorry about that Gabrial, I didn't notice the part where you listed factions that do shoot on sight. I didn't pay attention.

The only major human faction that we know for sure that doesn't kill ghouls is NCR.

I base ghouls off the original version of Ghouls. Before they became burn victims. My idea of a ghoul is people like Set and Harold. Yeah I know Harold is no longer a ghouls (Thanks Bethesda ) But he descibes himself as one. Which means that if he was with a crowed of ghouls, you would have a hard time pointing him out (ignore the tree).

The Ghouls are very hideous and can smell bad. Pretty much they are a rotted corpse, that one guy in Broken Hills have flies living in him. No one would want a Zombie with them. I know they didn't die and come back from the dead. But they are pretty much a Zombie. They even used to be slow and shuffling, with body parts falling off.

That to me is a ghoul. Ghouls in Fallout 3 and New Vegas are crap IMO.

Because human brains are fresh and young so they can learn lots of new things fast. Ghouls otherhand they are durable because they are zombies and zombies can take lots of punishment before dying. Ghouls brains are decaying so they dont learn new things so fast anymore and because they are old they dont learn new stuff fast anymore.



Alien abomination(alien/human hybrid)- +10 damage dealth with energy weapons, +20 science, +Knockdown immunity
Robobrain - Infrared vision allows you to see at night clearly as daylight, 100% Radiation immunity, 100% Poison immunity, Build in laser weapons, +1 Intelligence.

.... Ghouls... Are.... Not... zombies for crying out loud!!
Try shooting a ghoul in the leg until it's health bar goes to zero.
Go on, I dare you to do it.

...

Did it die?
Not a zombie then.

Are ghouls dead corpses that started living again?
No?
Not a zombie then.

Can a person be apart of a slow ghoulification process which is slowly mutating you into something different from a human?
Yeah?
Not a zombie then.


And their brains are not decaying.
Calamity has been alive for a looooooong time and she was able to learn her new job with relative ease.
If he brain was decaying she wouldn't be able to switch profession every decade.

I remember hearing it somwhere, that the radiation rots there brain leading to them becoming feral.
I think it was from the trooper at searchlight.

The only thing that keeps them from being a Zombie is coming back from the Dead. In the orginals, they were very zombie like. Slow and shuffling. Rotted corpse for a body, with body parts falling off and flies and bad smell. That used to be a ghoul before Bethesda made ghouls just burn victims.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1349543-play-as-different-races-ideas-for-races-and-their-specs/page__pid__20340764__st__30#entry20340764

Si, I miss the old ghouls. But they are still not zombies. They are not reanimated corpses of any sense, they are mutants with a rare case of leprecy and super regenerative healing.

F3's feral Ghouls are 28 Days Later-style infected and normal ghouls are chronic smokers who got a flesh eating virus.

Original ghouls were intelligent corpse like humans.

I agree they aren't technically a zombie. They aren't a reanimated corpse, but they are a corpse. Their bodies are rotting, they smell really bad, they can't run, the shuffle about. They smell bad and have flies living in them. Organs and bone showing. They even call themselves zombies.

Necropolis is called the City of the Dead. If you saw a guy like Set shuffling towards you, you might think ZOMBIE!

This is why people shoot them on sight. They are a walking rotted corpse. They might not have died and come back from the dead, but really to the average wastelander, they think "Zombie!"

Even if you can get past that, why would you want to have a rotting smelly corpse in your town?

And they do NOT eat BRAINZ!

To be fair here, we don't know that for sure

They eat human flesh. Well ferals do at least.

I agree with those who say, that playing a Ghoul should shut doors and paths for the player, no matter what. It'd make it feel as if you were actually playing a Ghoul, and could get a feel for what they've done. I wouldn't want them to do it like Skyrim where there's a stigma against a certain race, yet the PC never gets to truly experience that stigma like the NPCs, because they're the PC.

Other, smaller, mutations (with a risk vs. benifit) would be cool too if implemented right. Like that perk "Friend of the Night" but instead make it a trait. You see very well in low light environments (not time of day dependent) but suffer a -3 to perception (and a blurry bright mess visually) in bright light without tinted eye wear (like Riddike's night sight from Pitch Black.) <--- of course this type of mutation would work best if night time and dark environments were actually dark like the mods Fellout and Electro-city.

Just say'n as there are other types of mutantations outside of the common ghoul, SM, etc.

Anyone else notice that 80% of all the NCR guys in Riot Gear are ghouls?
I'm still against being able to play as one, but NCR seem to have no problems letting em join.
Or maybe they give em the full suit of armor so no one can see that their best sub-faction is heavily composed of ghouls.