After responding to the 'what I want to see most in this game' thread, I got to thinking of what I really want. Now this suggestion is more in depth than my short response on that thread and I felt It needed a thread of its own.

This would be a unique feature that would set FE apart from other post ap mmo's currently in development.
Please read post in entirety before bashing..hehe.

I want player created environments that are instances spread over the lands. (Kind of think along lines of Warcraft (not WoW) and the player made maps on battle net.) Using the games graphics, engines, and pre-designed mobs, room themes etc, allow players to build dungeons that are playable by other people. With all the instances used in MMOs today, it can be done. (By dungeon, it could be referring to a fallout shelter, vault, cave, junkyard, abandoned office building, etc.) The players designing the dungeon are selecting floor layout, mob placement, mob levels, mob abilities (from pre set skill tables), attribute points, etc.. The loot tables are predetermined by the level/ mob type and NOT by the players developing the dungeon. Only one dungeon can be submitted per active account. Dungeons that receive high enough played counts & player ratings, could eventually make it to the hall of fame. (allowing that player to then create another dungeon)

You are sitting in town, with a group of people deciding where to go. You pick up the town's local paper or look at bulletin board to see the list of local options. Sort by average time spent in dungeon, kill death ratio, difficulty level, and PLAYER RATINGS to make your pick. Make your selection in town and get directions to the instance/ way point, and the instance can download while the player is running to the location. You go, you fight, you rate.

Maybe the designer gets some type of credits for the number of people his dungeon kills, he also gets bragging rights on his ratings, or making it to the hall of fame. There are a lot of options here of ways to reward the players for their creation..

A system like this allows for easily changing content (which also benefits future expansions) as well as allowing players to contribute to the world in which they immerse themselves in. The developers themselves can make some dungeons,(some premade ones will be needed to start off with anyway) and see how they rate in comparison to player made ones.


Other player created environments include player made towns, player made market places (EQ Tunnel Pre Luclin), alliances large enough to be considered factions of their own. The ability to shape the events round them, to contribute to the world, and to be a part of the world.

waht you say was kinda used in Anarchy Online at misions to set dificulty and toher thigns .Dont think we will have waht you say in the game

I am the Formless in all forms.Strenght si the only measure ,all things can be resolved with violence and blood share.

Kind of like a DM on the Old NWN persistent servers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_of_Planes_and_Planets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights

That would definitely help with the GM ran events?

how about a world totally barren when the server starts up.

everyone beguines emerging from vaults into a barren wasteland and its up to the player base to construct things. anything can be built and destroyed, but if its neglected then it just sits their and rots.

would be kinda bland at first but after time has passed and players have started then game, built empires, concurred, been concurred, and then quit leaving the husks of all there labor behind it would get pretty cool. i could see that working for the total FFA PvP game barakus was advocating. you could go searching for stuff other players have left behind or form a group and squat on a piece of land, if enough people stay logged in at all times to defend it you could hold it but if everyone logs off you could log back in to find someone else on the spot of land. hay, "OC" ..... i got something for ya right here! _|_ (^.^) _|_


"MMO-RPG" = "Mass Market Oriented - Repetitive Profit Genera"
- damned things still svcked me in ...

How about..no

if enough people stay logged in at all times to defend it you could hold it but if everyone logs off you could log back in to find someone else on the spot of land.

So I work to build something from nothing, log out and then find it's all gone after I get back off holiday? No thanks.
Also Player created environments would need an awful lot of oversight. What's to stop me making a dungeon, then telling all my friends where the keys are hidden, where to go, which traps are hidden, etc.? The crap-to-quality ratio would be absurd.

I hated vanguard for that reason. If you didnt log in every week or so, to pay your rent, your house goes poof.

Yes, it does prevent cluttered landscapses and abandonded houses, but still, players shouldnt loose their time and effort.

Look at eq2, player housing is instanced. I can cancel my account, leave game for a year (and have), return to the game and have my house exactly the way I left it.

Instances dont alter the terrain, but use what is already there as access points. So there are no additional buildings that were not previously there.

I like the idea of a dynamic areas and that will ruin PvE unless everything is ran by a GM. gamesas can not afford (at this time anyway) to pay for GMs nor give them any sort of benefits. So for now, all GMs have to be volunteers which leads me to the next question.

How do you keep a GM from hooking up their friends and/or grieving other players? If you create a Master GM (gamesas Employee), they will be inundated with whiners and probably most of the complaints will be bogus. This will not work and then gamesas will say, "Dynamic play and GMs are no longer a viable idea."
Perhaps not allowing GMs to create a character and monitor their IP for either a single IP or subnet may be the only solution.

PvE or PvP player fortifications entry is controlled by the players and can either permit or deny entry to anyone.

Maybe-

Scenario A -

1) Dynamic cities/regions can either be PvE GM lead or PvP Faction lead. PvE and PvP have free reign to end cities or change power. No player character stays alive unless the GM wants him to. The difference between PvE and PvP attacks is that the PvP can engage other PvP factions and PvE can not engage no except mobs. PvE players can be effected by stray shots or AOE if they are standing near a PvP player.

So PvEers, you need to either take cover or flee the area during a PvP vs PvP engagement.

Sceanario B -

1) Original Cities and Factions remain PvE - no change for them. Other Barren areas on the map will be considered dynamic. So a combo dynamic and static areas. This will allow players to still play if there are immature GMs online.

I really like the dynamic world idea, I just do not see happening because of whiners, grievers, perhaps coding, and chaos (although Fallout and Chaos are synonymous)?

You are reading my mind m8. I believe it could work, as long as SPECIAL is the hard base.

About the, offline problem, structures (houses, walls) can be destroyed when owning player is offline but not all can be looted, if the player get lets say 5 (or however the item system will look) items he can mark as unlootable no matter what, and aswell some % or predecided amount of money that the thief can loot. In the end when the player logs on and sees his house robbed, he doesint loose much (but much enough to reward the thief) and the destroyed house can easy be repaired without much or any costs (becouse of this specific happening). As a bonus, the player can watch replay of the situaction to find out the robber and if the robber is not hidding his identy well then he can get revange or write a wanted poster and let the bounty hunters get him.

And... I got a instance-sickness. I dont know why, i guess i was born that way. The Sarmatians

I say no that people can be attacked while offline. If they live in a vault and they remember to close the door, that should be all they need to remain safe during offline status.

However if the player is online, he\she is fair game. They can have a pager or something that alerts them that they are under attack so maybe they have a chance to respond - that is if the pager works.

Most PvP players will probably live in a PvP faction base or something.

I'm totally up for the idea of player generated towns. Though to ease some concern maybe the spots should be predetermined, but are completely player built up.

How about..no

if enough people stay logged in at all times to defend it you could hold it but if everyone logs off you could log back in to find someone else on the spot of land.

So I work to build something from nothing, log out and then find it's all gone after I get back off holiday? No thanks.
Also Player created environments would need an awful lot of oversight. What's to stop me making a dungeon, then telling all my friends where the keys are hidden, where to go, which traps are hidden, etc.? The crap-to-quality ratio would be absurd.

That and eventually you'll just have one huge city and no wasteland. Also I think it would put to much stress on the developers in this day n age.

that would kinda be the idea, artists spend years making environments look randomly trashed and desolate but with this kinda thing the players would be the ones actually making it trashed and desolate in a random way ( instead of just looking it )

>.> not really throwing out a suggestion for FOOL with this just kinda speaking my mind on a environment that would be kinda cool.

say that there was some way that new materials would only be generated slowly, but old materials could be reclaimed from existing structures. so if you wanted to build a house you would need to go tear someone else's down when they arnt looking for materials.

same could go for anything ... you find a broken down car that someone left because they didn't want to repair it, then you go out and find some other junked cars and pull parts off it to fix the one you found.

i guess what I'm describing is a form of "garys mod" on crack in a persistent environment with other players and the only way o build new crap is to steal parts of other peoples crap

as for the "guard it or loose it" thing: most guild look for members in the same time zone, with this you would need more organizational skills and try and seek out people that play during specific times to fill in gaps where other people arnt online.

as it is running a guild simply requires that you make a statement of: "play at 6:12 pm PST everyday because thats when the guild runs dungeon raids" and if people don't show you kick 'em.

with needing a 24 hr watch you would have to seek out people from all time zones and assign then to different tasks like "guard duty" where they sit around the guilds player made fortress and pick off anyone who comes snooping around, and "scout" where its there job to seek out materials to salvage and bring back to upgrade the fort. if a scout finds another player made fortress with light defense they could come running back to base to get a assault team together and go raid the other base. hay, "OC" ..... i got something for ya right here! _|_ (^.^) _|_


"MMO-RPG" = "Mass Market Oriented - Repetitive Profit Genera"
- damned things still svcked me in ...

whats to stop other people from kicking down the door, finding all the traps, stealing your loot, reseting the traps in different locations, and then fixing the door so that the same key works. then when your friends try to breeze through the dungeon with the key you supply, everything blows up in there face and they have to dig there way out of it. hay, "OC" ..... i got something for ya right here! _|_ (^.^) _|_


"MMO-RPG" = "Mass Market Oriented - Repetitive Profit Genera"
- damned things still svcked me in ...

That part of my reply was about player created dungeons from the OP:
"...allow players to build dungeons that are playable by other people...The players designing the dungeon are selecting floor layout, mob placement, mob levels, mob abilities (from pre set skill tables), attribute points, etc.."
Which suggests a player-led static environment. Which is open to abuse.

Your world sounds great until you realise that 1 month down the line new players will come into a game where all the Vaults have been stripped bare, and a few guilds/clans/whatever control all the resources, and things stop being fun. MMOs need static environments to support a player base.
But most of all it needs to be fun. And your view of the game isn't fun. Logging on every day at a specific time to sit and guard a stack of metal? no thanks.

oops my bad, thought that was directed at me!

#1 thinking that some areas would be static and that new materials would be generated at a slow rate. not too little and not too much, so that you can get whatever your trying to build 1/2 way completed before your patience runs out and you go steal what you need to fix it.

#2 not really thinking RPG here but more of a persistent FPS world. the construction elements would probably simulate the RPG factors but your char wouldn't have lvls. all your skills would come from the quality of the weapon in your hands and your grip on the mouse, if you get killed your drop what you had in your hands but the stuff in your pack is safe. well maybe some construction skill lvls ....

yeah the idea of logging in each day to stand guard duty sounds dull but so does spending hours clicking on a the same type of monster and hammering keys on the skill bar: ooh riveting lol

or spending hours on repeatedly killing each other over and over again on the same series of 5-12 maps with no other agenda then to kill each other as fast as you can: doesn't sound fun either.

but point and click RPG's and FPS death matches are the two most popular types of games, people spend days at a time playing them. hay, "OC" ..... i got something for ya right here! _|_ (^.^) _|_


"MMO-RPG" = "Mass Market Oriented - Repetitive Profit Genera"
- damned things still svcked me in ...

I would like to see Guild Controled Environments. Lets face it, the wastes are harsh and unforgiving, and people are going to go into the wastes and actually build a new building, they are going to occupy one that is already standing and then modify it to suit thier purpose. Most of the threads I've seen have generally been under the opinion that there would be unlimited free range of options when creating these player created environments. I propose limitations.

First of all, the hideout should be instanced, the floorplan generic, and it should reflect the size and power of the guild.

For the 7-man guild could "own" a single room shack.
20-man guild - a Multiroom house or equivelant
60-man guild - a Warehouse or equivelant
200+ guild- Maybe a fortress or small city.

Each floorplan would have a specific number of slots available to put furniture in, which could either be purchased, salvaged, made, or more specifically earned through various raid encounters.

The guild could purchase different NPC that would provide benefits like getting an Armoury, Medic, Quartermaster, and various other useful NPCs.

And perhaps the most important, Random Off-line guildies could be chilling there, so the place will always be "Guarded". There should be a weekly option for the guild to "Defend" thier property, so get the guild together and be prepared to BE raided instead of doing the raiding.

I am very much pro player created content. It gives ownership to players. There are just as much pros as cons, even in a well developed system. Even weighing them all, I would like such a system to be implemented. The more depth and involved, the better. Allowing it to be maintained by the community of gamers is good. You don't want someone making a structure, leaving the game and it stand there forever. UO and SWG pre SOE are good examples of doing it well, IMO.

"Z"

Player created content would be a great addition to any MMOG and especially an RPG. Like who wouldn't want to build there own base, house, etc. <<<>>>>

the ideas was implemented in Age of Conan, there is a normal static environment for ppl to level and do PvE, and there are ares where guilds can build there forts, for building forts u need specific guild lvl and members with construction professions, you gather materials via PvE, mining etc. there are 5 tiers of the fort you get various npc in each blacksmith etc. only in the highest tier the raiding begins as it would always make that the older stronger guilds would farm the new ones everyday, and new players would just stop coming. the dynamic theme also is implemented in eve online, but with a different approach, when a big and powerful corporation reaches a certain point there are 2 options, then can conquer a system and build their base there or the devs release a patch with a new system that belongs to that corp. a dynamic environment is a great idea, but you should think about the devs first, "is it even possible?" you don't even imagine how many variables there should be to even support such a dynamic environment, huge databases, and high chance of crash, not to mention the hardware needed for such things. if it is instanced than players should get patches almost every hour (at least at the beginning) maybe in a few years it would be possible but not now. dreaming is nice, but a dream that can be fulfilled by the devs is better.