I'm currently at a point in my mod where I have to make a decision about how I'm going implement a gameplay mechanic and on one hand the method I prefer would need the player to resist taking the easy way out but another method would prevent the player from doing this but lessen an aspect of the mechanic, which I think is pretty important.

I am making a mod that includes the ability to build complex Dwemer devices. I also want to include the ability for the player to repair damaged and worn devices as they would a piece or armour or a weapon. The problem is that the player would be able to repair these complex devices using ordinary repair tools and the Armourer skill which doesn't make sense as the devices require a different skill set. An Armourer shouldn't be able to repair a mine etc.

The other way would see me prevent the player from doing this by scripts but its difficult, time consuming and the player wouldn't be able to inspect the condition of the devices as they would a normal weapon or piece of armour without equipping a special item first( goggles, special repair tool etc).

So I come to my question: how many of you, when faced with the temptation of using a part of the game that could be considered an exploitation, use it or even get annoyed with it. I know that the fact that the super rich Creeper in Caldera kind of annoys me. Its not the fact that he has a lot of gold, that's ok as some items are really expensive, its the fact that he buys everything at its highest price. But thats just me. I like to think we're all grown up and can choose whether or not to take advantage of a situation.

My opinion on such things has always been very simple: I am the modder, I'll make it the way I want it to be. I am a role player at heart, I can resist an easy temptation to improve my character for the sake of a good story or decent challenge. I think it's a safe bet to think that most who still play Morrowind are the same way. And if they happen to be the type who just really enjoy the simple way and making an uber character...well, they can have theirs too. :hehe:

What Fliggerty said.

Ditto!

If something is in my game, it doesn't bother me and I consider it fair game to use it. But then, to me "balancing mod" is just another phrase for "unnecessary annoyance."

Not exactly related to your question, but. . . be sure to make it so those devices in your mod require Dwemer cogs to build. The game cries out for a use for those things.

I think you hit it on the head, Fligg. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees, ta.



They're in there. I think they're in a lot of things, actually.

Make sure that we're clearly told about the alternative. We may use the easy way, because we don't realise.

Most would choose the way we're supposed to here, I would think. I mean, there's hardly someone showing off thier full daedric armoured guy with 2000+ stats.

I feel the exact same way here, Sickleyield.


Well, Fliggerty, I respect your opinion, but although I do have a somewhat uber char (reflect 100% for a long duration) most of the time, I hardly do things the simple way.

But yeah, to wrap it up, It's totally up to the mod maker to do things. And to be honest, I would set it up so you did need fancy tools too. Although, a mine is just a fancy weapon that's placed on the ground and explodes when you step on it. So, who knows, maybe a really good armorer could figure it out?
Edited out some redundant redundancy...

The other way would see me prevent the player from doing this by scripts but its difficult, time consuming and the player wouldn't be able to inspect the condition of the devices as they would a normal weapon or piece of armour without equipping a special item first( goggles, special repair tool etc).


Have you considered a new skill maybe? one that would allow you to interact with the machinery on a level like the "dwemery secret mod", I tryed the mod and even when i beliebe it{s something crasy and not in morrowind{s lore I was prety impresed with the machine-intercation, prhaps you could asign skill values to the machinery parts then add some books to explain the common problems (maybe some quest involving translating said books), then having a dwemer tube on your inventory and enough skill and a tool would sufice to click on the item in game to simply replace it... no anolisis, no messages, no menu, just meet the requeriments and go!, guess it{s a point betwen the points but anyway just an Idea as allways...

Looking good keep it up

No, I haven't seen that mod. Do you have a link? I did decide on using faction levels to replace skills as I don't think you make new skills, can you? And I decided to use weapons for machinery and containers for the large Dwemer devices so if you have the right factional level you can inspect their innards and repair them.

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=638

Also, it's possible to make a "fake" skill - while it won't appear in the menu, it will advance with the player's actions, can be trained etc. See http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=4077's craft skills as an example.

If you use the system of Morrowind Crafting then you could have a fake skill to govern it instead of Armory, but just one comment.
Just let the player play the game any way he or she wants. If the player wants to jump arround like an idiot to raise their acrobatics its fine or if they want to raise their skills spontaniously thats fine too. Make your mod but dont try to dictate how you want everybody else to play the game

Amen.

The true beauty of this game is its customizability. There are mods such as the role-playing suite I have begun or Antares' "No Trespassing" which seek to add realism and challenge by putting up roadblocks to the easy exploits. I know that has limited appeal, but that's the kind of trial I personally like to go through when playing the game. At the other extreme, you could jump up and down as CABRON describes or, heck, just open up the console and type player->setacrobatics 80 or even TGM and play the game that way.

Rest assured, you will arrive at the same point one way or another. Some ways just take longer with a more roundabout approach.

Make the mod the way you see fit, include options, if you can, for others to configure it to their own liking, and promote it to kindred spirits who enjoy playing the game the way you do.

Another example of a fake skill is the Herbalism skill introduced by some Herbalism mods. They make it so the lower your skill, the more likely you are to damage a plant without getting any ingredients (the plant disappears until enough time has passed for it to grow back). Success in harvesting an ingredient raises your skill, and therefore your chance of doing it right the next time.

I didn't know that thanks, I'll take a look though I like teh idea of the palyer getting some feedback about their standing and the way I can have NPCs react to the rank in a given faction.



I was considering this with the devices/components. One can and will break something if a skill is low and I think that given that I would like this mechanic in and some of vanilla MW's mechanics have this (Alchemy/Enchanting) then it wouldn't be out of palce. It would certainly encourage exploration and the fighting of constructs as every construct ( I think I'm up to about 20 different types) will be able to be deconstructed once they're dead and have their parts be able to be used to repair other constructs.

To answer your original question: I'm like electricity; I take the path of least resistance. I will play according to the 'spirit' of a mod only until it gets frustratingly difficult and then I will find and take shortcuts. If dialog/journal hints are too vague or infrequent, or if the plot doesn't move along in a timely manner; I'll move it myself. Think about how many times you or someone you've read about, has confessed to resting days on end to get time to pass for a particular requirement to be met. That is an exploit in and of itself. In other words, don't dangle the carrot too long or you'll get a lot of people taking the easy route.

On the other hand, you can't control what people will do with your mod once it is out of your hands. There will always be people who will ignore the spirit of the mod just to get to the end as quickly as possible. Make it the way you want to. If some folks don't like it, they don't have to play it and if they take advantage of shortcuts; that's not your problem. It's their game. The majority of people will attempt to play any mod through the way it was intended.

Maybe a higer skill would mean to be able to fight them better?? after all a mechanist would be able to break a car better right?? and as for the "recicling parts" part, maybe keep it simple and add some leveled part loot to them so you whont always get the same nor what you seek making it more balanced...

Sorry for the delay on the link good to see that someone else had provided it couse I don{t come over here except from time to time